Would using 5-HTP or tryptophan also help when you crave sugar (as a sort of antidepressant) late afternoon/evening? ~ Kimberley
This question was posed in response to my recent blog post about using tryptophan or 5-HTP to help with alcohol cravings/addiction in the late afternoon/evening – to help you wind down and relax, improve mood and sleep, and also as a reward/treat.
I said yes it is often the same cause when it happens late afternoon/evening and when there are other low serotonin symptoms like low mood, anxiety, worry, insomnia etc. When serotonin is low we self-medicate with wine, sugar, carbs, gluten, dairy and chocolate etc. in order to feel good, get a mood boost and reduce stress. 5-HTP or tryptophan stops the sugar cravings, acts as an antidepressant (improving mood) and eases other low serotonin symptoms too.
It turns out Kimberley was craving sugar late afternoon: “it’s definitely late afternoon for me, while I’m making dinner. Maybe it’s time to go back on 5-HTP.”
And then 2 days later she posted how quickly 5-HTP helped when she added it back mid-afternoon:
I was taking a break from tryptophan/5-HTP and realized after reading this post that that might be a mistake! So I added 5-HTP back in mid-afternoon and my sugar cravings are almost completely gone. It’s funny how I forget the symptoms of low neurotransmitters. Thanks for reminding me!
5-HTP works quickly when it’s low serotonin
How wonderful are these results for Kimberley. I never get tired of hearing feedback like this! I appreciate her sharing and giving me permission to share as a blog so you get to learn and be inspired too.
It’s not unusual for 5-HTP to work this quickly and when it does it’s a clue that the symptoms are related to low serotonin and that she found the ideal dose for her needs.
Kimberley had good results with 5-HTP in the past so she went back to what had worked for her before and it worked for her again.
But do keep in mind, some folks do better with 5-HTP and some do better with tryptophan so it’s a matter of doing a trial of each one each.
50 mg 5-HTP: the sadness and despair lifts in a few minutes
A week later she kindly came and shared additional details in the comments of the tryptophan/ 5-HTP alcohol cravings blog, saying:
It’s possible that I was already in the middle of my daily, mid-afternoon chocolate chip binge when I saw your post
I took a 50 mg 5-HTP along with my mid-afternoon Endorphigen capsule, and within just a few minutes I felt the sadness and despair that I often feel in the late afternoon, start to lift. I was astonished at how quickly it worked! I didn’t open the capsule, or chew it, I just swallowed it with water and had a snack afterwards. I really can’t thank you enough for asking that question because I was really struggling with low mood and sadness almost every day.
Even though KImberley had used 5-HTP with success in the past, she was still astonished how quickly it worked and how effective it was. She was also surprised she had forgotten her prior low serotonin symptoms:
Up until January I had taken 5-HTP in the mid-afternoon and then Tryptophan at bedtime, but I wanted to try a program to support my thyroid. That program told me that too much serotonin is often at the root of gut damage, so I weaned myself off of the 5-HTP and tryptophan. I didn’t really notice much difference, except the daily sugar cravings.
I’m not sure how I could so easily forget the symptoms of low serotonin, but I did.
Your question really was a God-send for me, Trudy. It reminded me that there was an option for feeling better (in fact, MUCH better than sugar makes me feel) that didn’t involve something that’s not good for me.
And I really did feel remarkably better the same day, and those results have continued.
Thanks again, Trudy, for continuing to bring these topics up. Some of us are forgetful and need reminding. Usually, when you have symptoms of low serotonin there are enough other issues going on in your life that it’s easy to overlook the obvious. So I’m very grateful that you asked the question, because I feel so much better able to deal with my circumstances now that I’m back on the 5-HTP. Blessings to you!
I am curious about the program that told her too much serotonin is often at the root of gut damage and if they suggested stopping 5-HTP and tryptophan. It doesn’t make any sense to me. I’ll report back when I learn more about this.
More tired during the day and a headache: what to consider
She did mention “I’m finding myself more tired during the day and have also had a headache for the last few days.” I would suspect chocolate/caffeine withdrawal may have caused her headache.
With feeling more tired I’d also watch the dose of 5-HTP. She may find less is better for her needs.
She is also trying tryptophan at bedtime so that may be making her more tired the next day. Doing one amino acid at a time is often the best way to know how each one is affecting you.
Finding what works for your unique needs
Here are some other amino acid/sugar cravings blog posts that illustrate how we all have unique needs and different biochemical imbalances:
The individual amino acids glutamine, GABA, tryptophan (or 5-HTP), DPA and tyrosine are powerful for eliminating sugar cravings, often within 5 minutes. It seems that this wonderful benefit – over and above the anxiety-reducing and mood-boosting benefits – is often overlooked or poorly understood.
For Melissa, an unexpected result was that she stopped craving sugar (chocolates, ice cream and truffles) after about a week of taking GABA for her travel anxiety.
It’s a matter of finding what works for your sugar cravings and unique needs. GABA worked for Melissa and yet 5-HTP works for Kimberley – for their sugar cravings.
Here is the tryptophan/5-HTP alcohol cravings blog that started the discussion: Tryptophan had the added benefit of turning me completely off alcohol when I took it to improve mood and sleep during perimenopause. In this case, tryptophan helped Victoria quit the wine that she was self-medicating with in order to feel good and relax.
Resources if you are new to using amino acids as supplements
If you are new to using amino acids as supplements, here is the Amino Acids Mood Questionnaire from The Antianxiety Food Solution (you can see all the symptoms of neurotransmitter imbalances, including low GABA, low serotonin and low endorphins).
If you suspect low levels of any of the neurotransmitters and do not yet have my book, The Antianxiety Food Solution – How the Foods You Eat Can Help You Calm Your Anxious Mind, Improve Your Mood, and End Cravings, I highly recommend getting it and reading it before jumping in and using amino acids on your own so you are knowledgeable. And be sure to share it with the practitioner/health team you or your loved one is working with.
There is an entire chapter on the amino acids and they are discussed throughout the book in the sections on gut health, gluten, blood sugar control, sugar cravings, anxiety and mood issues.
The book doesn’t include product names (per the publisher’s request) so this blog, The Antianxiety Food Solution Amino Acid and Pyroluria Supplements, lists the amino acids that I use with my individual clients and those in my group programs. You can find them all in my online store.
If, after reading this blog and my book, you don’t feel comfortable figuring things out on your own (i.e. doing the symptoms questionnaire and respective amino acids trials), a good place to get help is the GABA QuickStart Program (if you have low GABA symptoms too). This is a paid online/virtual group program where you get my guidance and community support.
If you are a practitioner, join us in The Balancing Neurotransmitters: the Fundamentals program. This is also a paid online/virtual program with an opportunity to interact with me and other practitioners who are also using the amino acids.
Has 5-HTP helped reduce your cravings and/or feelings of despair and sadness? How much helps and how quickly?
Or do you find tryptophan works better for you? If yes, how much helps and how quickly?
What sugary food/s do you self-medicate with in order to feel good?
If you’re a practitioner, do you use this approach with your clients/patients?
Feel free to post your feedback and questions here in the comments.
When I take 5HTP for a few days it seems to not agree with my brain – I feel even more unsettled . If I took it one or two days I’m ok .
I need to take it morning or I won’t sleep . Would this be because of type of methylation issue slow or fast ? I usually get it made compounding chemist on script 100mg
Gez
A typical starting dose for 5-HTP is 50mg and too much can cause adverse effects. And for folks with high cortisol 5-HTP can often be an issue. Also, as I mention some folks do better on tryptophan.
Hello,
I have severe sugar craving immediately after I’ve eaten in the evening. I can go easily go through a pack of anything be it biscuits or chocolates and will not stop until I finish. I can put it down to
1. Health anxiety\depression.
2. Gut Dysbiosis.
3. Nutritional deficiency.
I start off the day healthy as I have gastritis, grastroperisis, gut dysbiosis, histamine intolerance, H. Pylori, SIBO.
After following a strucr diet for almost 6 years and treating myself with supplements and not getting anywhere, I have broken down and exhausted.
I came across this post and need help. I am taking so many supplements and medication for my gut, I wouldn’t know which of the above supplement to take.
I do take l glutamine already for gut healing which I mix with slippery elm, marshmallow root and DGL powder in water, twice or three times a day. It doesn’t help.
Naveed
Evening cravings are classical low serotonin when there are the other low serotonin symptoms. We use the symptoms questionnaire to figure this out https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
This blog that I share explains things further – The individual amino acids glutamine, GABA, tryptophan (or 5-HTP), DPA and tyrosine are powerful for eliminating sugar cravings, often within 5 minutes https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-individual-amino-acids-glutamine-gaba-tryptophan-or-5-htp-dpa-and-tyrosine-are-powerful-for-eliminating-sugar-cravings-often-within-5-minutes/. Read the section – The best way to figure it which neurotransmitter deficiency is affecting your sugar cravings.
When you are new to the amino acids, my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is an excellent resource. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Good morning Trudy,
I just read your reply. I’ll certainly read the above.
Is there a test chemical is missing. I’ve done an OATS test fairly recently. Will this show it?
Naveed
I use the symptoms questionnaire and response to the amino acids
can you take 5-htp or tryptophan while you take tricyclic dothiepin 125 mg at night.I have tried the GABA calm(3)and Now GABA powder 500 mg 1 quarter teaspoon under the tongue and didn’t work for my relentless anxiety and low moods. If so what dosage and best time.
Also take 75mg of oroxoine in the am on empty stomach.
Angie
Like with SSRIs there is a risk of serotonin syndrome with tricyclic antidepressants being used with 5-HTP or tryptophan. I have clients move the medication to the morning and trial the amino acids 6 hours apart (all with prescribing doctor’s approval and monitoring).
When tricyclic antidepressants are not working to relieve “relentless anxiety and low moods” we explore diet and other factors. My book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is an excellent resource. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
If someone has low GABA symptoms, I don’t consider 3 GABA Calm and 1/4 teaspoon (of 500mg) GABA to be a good enough trial and we explore doing higher amounts.
hi Trudy,not sure what you mean by moving medication to the morning.Are you referring to the 5htp or tryptophan?If so,what dose ,and when you say six hours apart,what are we saying.Am Midday etc???
The dothiepin can’t be taken in the morning as makes me fall asleep and dizzy.
Also what are serotonin symptoms to look out for
Also you have always recommend starting with 1 GABA calm lozenge,I was taking three thinking this is a high dose already.What dose do you recommend starting at?The Now pure GABA only powder also says 500mg (quarter teaspoon twice a day.I also find this is not enough to help my level of anxiety.Regards and thanks for your kind reply
Angie
I’m referring to moving psychiatric medications to the morning. When that can’t be done we use other amino acids (like GABA) and dietary changes.
Using 1 GABA Calm is the starting dose for doing a trial. When it works I have clients use 1 up to 4 x a day and increase from there if needed.
Thanks for the reply.
So you said 3gaba calm isn’t enough and in 2nd reply said start on 1 gava calm.?
My dothiepin can’t be taken am as I said as it puts me to sleep within 2 hours,so if I also can’t take 5htp or tryptophan incase of serotonin syndrome you mentioned in first response,what should I take am and how often?Am a little confused after the latest response.I know I am not an easy fix.My health professionals do not use alternative treatments nor are there any were I live. I have purchased your book and have tried the GABA 3lozenges at a time)for over 6,months to no avail.If the tryptophan or Htp are not an option what else is there.Kindest regards
Angie
I really can’t offer consulting via the blog and am providing general feedback.
Using 1 GABA Calm is the starting dose for doing a trial. When it works I have clients increase and use 1 up to 4 x a day and also increase from there if needed. Some clients use 500mg 3 x day but don’t start at this dose.
For low mood we also explore tyrosine and DPA when there are low dopamine and low endorphin symptoms.
Can you comment on using amino acids to alleviate dysmorphic milk ejection reflex (intense despair during milk letdown when breastfeeding)?
Donna
Amino acids have not been studied in nursing. I would love to see some research as I believe they would help D-MER (dysphoric milk ejection reflex) symptoms and also post-partum anxiety, depression, OCD and intrusive thoughts.
I would discuss rhodiola with your integrative doctor/support team. It’s also not been studied in nursing but in this paper, D-MER advocate, Alia Heise, shares how rohiola worked for her – Dysphoric milk ejection reflex: A case report https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC3126760/ She cites oxytocin/dopamine mechanisms and how rhodiola “prevents the breakdown of dopamine, increasing its availability”.
I can share that rhodiola, an adaptogenic herb, also helps to lower high cortisol and support serotonin, GABA and endorphins too.
Of course, I’d also address all the dietary and lifestyle aspects that I address in my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution.” More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Can you describe the feelings of despair and how long they last? Are you prone to low neurotransmitters and have you seen benefits from amino acids before pregnancy/nursing? If yes which ones?
And what dietary approaches from my book have helped ease some of the symptoms: no caffeine, no sugar, no gluten, eating for blood sugar stability, eating quality animal protein/quality fats/organic veggies & fruit/fermented veggies etc?
Your feedback helps me understand more about why this happens to some women. I also plan to do a blog post on this topic and will share your feedback and more about D-MER, rhodiola and how I’d like to see the amino acids studied in D-MER.
There needs to be more awareness and solutions. The incidence is reported to be 9% but I suspect it’s higher because many medical professionals are unaware and many women are dismissed and not even aware there may be a biochemical aspect to how they are feeling. Or that the term D-MER exists.
I was asking for a young mother, so I can’t answer your questions, but my impression was that she tried to deal with it without any support and didn’t find any actionable information online. She was very interested in the information on rhodiola, so thank you very much.
Donna
I’d appreciate feedback if she explores this option of rhodiola and it helps (and if her medical team is on board with it)
And if she is willing to come and comment on the blog and answer these questions please have her do so:
Can you describe the feelings of despair and how long they last? Are you prone to low neurotransmitters and have you seen benefits from amino acids before pregnancy/nursing? If yes which ones?
And what dietary approaches from my book have helped ease some of the symptoms: no caffeine, no sugar, no gluten, eating for blood sugar stability, eating quality animal protein/quality fats/organic veggies & fruit/fermented veggies etc?
Dysphoric, not dysmorphic
What are the best times to take the varied aminos? I get Tryptophan might be better at night before bed, I think GABA pretty much any time? For the sugar/ carb cravings that span much of the day, especially when stressed, tired, and after meals (weirdly!) what times are best and is empty stomach ok?
thank you
Deborah
Tryptophan is typically used midafternoon and evening and GABA throughout the day (4-5 times) – and always on an empty stomach.
Cravings all day could be low blood sugar or low GABA or low endorphins, cravings when stressed could be low GABA or low serotonin; and carvings when tired could be low blood sugar or low dopamine. I have clients use the symptoms questionnaire and trial one amino acid at a time.
Dietary changes to help with blood sugar control (protein and fat) help so much too.
When you are new to the amino acids, my book The Antianxiety Food Solution is a great resource https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/ Dietary aspects are addressed too
Hi Trudy. I tried several months ago taking 5-htp to help with bruxism and cravings. I took 100 mgs a day. After a week or so, I had a few days that I felt very down (not normal) and one of those days I was freezing cold, felt like I couldn’t get warm enough despite lots of blankets. Anyhow it made me wonder if I could of had serotonin syndrome? Do you think that’s even possible? I stopped taking it and my mood got better and the coldness went away. I want to try it again to help sleep, cravings, and bruxism but not sure if it’s a good idea. I am not on any prescription meds.
Sue
I have clients trial more than once to make sure it’s an issue. We also always start with 50mg 5-HTP and switch to tryptophan if 5-HTP isn’t tolerated or doesn’t work.
I also check to see if symptoms occurred around someone’s period or after gluten exposure.
The freezing cold symptom is unusual but I wouldn’t suspect serotonin syndrome in a case like this.
I have the book and find I have some of the symptoms for each amino acid deficiency. What I am most trying to fix, however, is cravings. I have them mostly after work, when I’m tired and depleted. I’ve been through all the amino acids except DLPA. It seems they all increase cravings! Since this is the case I typically don’t do the trial for more than one day. Do I need to run through them again trying a week at a time? Or is it possible that amino acids won’t affect my cravings? I’m also curious if your GABA program looks at all amino acid deficiencies or just GABA. Thanks for your work in this and for all your tremendous insight!
Suzanne
Feel free to share what you tried – how much and what time of the day, what products/brand, opened or swallowed, and what you crave – and I’ll share additional feedback because it’s very unusual to hear that amino acids increase cravings. We may trial different doses but also consider candida and other gut issues when the amino acids don’t work – although they do typically help to some extent.
The GABA program focuses just on GABA and how to use it effectively.
I’ve taken 5htp forever and have always made this correlation when I run out. I also noticed a spike in my overall appetite this last time, which was new to say the least, but I had run out about 3 weeks prior, and normally don’t go that long without reordering. it is interesting how it can work like that. Obviously, we’re not all metabolically the same, it can also cause agitation and headaches in some people, and you shouldn’t take it off you’re on an antidepressant, serotonin syndrome is no joke.
Michelle
Glad you made the cravings correlation. How does 5-HTP help you otherwise?
And yes serotonin syndrome can be an issue with an SSRI
Hi Trudy
I tried tryptophan 500 mg from lidtke, it didn’t enhance my mood, just made me too much relaxed and slept directly but upon waking I was also too sleepy. Could it be that I don’t need it. 1g made me more relaxed and tired and unable to sleep.
should I try 5htp or does this mean it is not a serotonin issue?
I take cymbalta which is a mix between norepinephrine and serotonin mid day
and tryptophan at night. I was doing a trial before I taper off.
Thanks
Firas
Each person needs to find what works for them. When 500mg is too much we reduce to find the optimal amount or consider a trial of 5-HTP. Low mood can also be due to low endorphins and/or low dopamine so we consider this too
I do have all clients on SSRIs or SRNIs work with the prescribing doctor and most do better with tapering when they are nutritionally stable before starting to taper. This means gluten-free, sugar-free, caffeine-free, eating for blood sugar stability, optimal gut health etc – as described in my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Thank you Trudy!
Appreciate your thoughts on this.
Why do you think after taking 50 mg 5HTP at night, the next morning I felt down and lost my concentration.
Tryptophan didn’t cause this.
It is as if the 5HTP affected my catecholamine neurotransmitters.
Appreciate it
Firas
Some folks do better on one vs the other and I have clients use the amino acid that helps