I’ve got an issue going on with my vagus nerve at the moment and the throat spasms have been affecting my voice and ability to speak for any length of time. It’s also causing this persistent dry cough, despite not feeling sick or having any respiratory symptoms. It’s much worse later in the day and gets particularly bad after about 30 minutes of talking.
I’ve been working with the very talented PT/nutritionist Joe Tatta for the last week and I am seeing much improvement already. I’m also learning so much on vagus nerve rehab.
Joe is a Musculoskeletal Pain Expert and you may recall our wonderful interview on the last Anxiety Summit on pain and anxiety.
Let me give you some of the back story. Just over a week ago I posted this message in a private facebook group of integrative practitioners/colleagues:
I’d love some help for me please. I have this ongoing spasmodic dry cough that starts as soon as I talk and gets worse later in the day. As you can imagine it’s affecting my day to day meetings, seeing clients and doing interviews, not to mention being highly irritating!
I don’t feel sick at all and have no congestion. It started after my NYC trip and a really frightening flight over the Colorado mountains!
We had the most awful turbulence and it felt like wings on the plane were going to break. People were screaming and the parents behind us were reassuring their kids saying it’s ok, it’s just like a roller coaster ride. I was sitting next to a 6’4’’ young man who had just completed training in the Coast Guard. He was also terrified and said they had taught him how to survive a boat going down but not how to survive a plane going down.
I believe my immune system got suppressed big time! The day after I got home I got the flu for the first time in 30+ years and I felt pretty grim for a day and then recovered nicely over the next 4-5 days. The flu was over 10 days ago but this stupid cough continues!
One night I could not sleep due to the coughing and decided to try and relax my airways with GABA. I know how effective GABA is for stiff and tense muscles so why not try it for the throat spasms I was having? I am now able to have a reasonable conversation for say 15-30 mins if I take 500mg GABA opened on to my tongue. Viola! a new use for GABA – pretty cool!
I must be low in GABA because I’m able to take upwards of 5 (and sometime more) doses of 500mg a day and not feel too wiped out. That’s a lot of GABA for me – 125mg to 250mg used to be enough for the anxiety I once experienced! I did have a bit of my old early morning waking with anxiety (that I used to have in my late 30s) that week of the flu but that’s now gone.
I’m also using a homeopathic called Boiron Drosera. I’ve never had asthma and don’t have much experience with it but from what I’m reading it sounds like the“cough-variant” of asthma!?
I’m asking here because I’m intrigued by this whole scary flight/depressed immunity/GABA for the spasms thing and wonder if anyone here has any insights?
Joe Tatta responded in about 30 minutes with this message:
Sounds like you have a vagus nerve problem. Potentially loss of parasympathetics. You can read some in this article but there is much more…
Here is the article he shared: Arnold’s nerve cough reflex: evidence for chronic cough as a sensory vagal neuropathy
Arnold’s nerve ear-cough reflex is recognised to occur uncommonly in patients with chronic cough. In these patients, mechanical stimulation of the external auditory meatus can activate the auricular branch of the vagus nerve (Arnold’s nerve) and evoke reflex cough. This is an example of hypersensitivity of vagal afferent nerves, and there is now an increasing recognition that many cases of refractory or idiopathic cough may be due to a sensory neuropathy of the vagus nerve.
The paper presents two cases where the cough was successfully treated with gabapentin. Gabapentin (also known as Neurontin) affects GABA levels and this why I get such great results with GABA.
Gabapentin is drug that is primarily used to treat seizures and neuropathic pain. It is also used for restless leg syndrome and hot flashes, and off-label for anxiety, insomnia, fibromyalgia and bipolar disorder. I’d love to see GABA being studied and used for these conditions especially because gabapentin can cause withdrawal syndrome: Withdrawal symptoms after gabapentin discontinuation and an increased risk of suicidal thoughts.
Joe offered to meet with me via skype and I learned that the neuro-rehab is key. I’ve been doing breathing exercises and humming every hour on the hour for the last week i.e. about 10 times a day. When I hum it’s the “happy birthday” song and I have to think of a specific birthday. I hum and smile and think about my baby sister’s 7th birthday party 37 years ago. I had just come back from Australia and I have such great memories of it! We chatted about it at the weekend and had a good laugh.
I continue to use the GABA as needed, and am also taking GPC (GlyceroPhosphoCholine) and Acetyl-L-carnitine, both of which are acetylcholine precursors for nerve rehabilitation.
Because I’ve had so many questions about what is going on with me and what I’m doing, I have decided to start this blog post and I’ll continue to add to it. I’ve been documenting what has been happening as I go through this rehab because I’m finding it so fascinating.
Stay tuned for all the details:
- More on the vagus nerve and why it’s so important
- Why the very scary plane ride triggered this issue I’m having
- How GABA works to stop the spasms in 5-10 seconds (I have a video to share)
- Exactly what exercises I’m doing for the rehab and why you need to build up and not do gargling exercises on day one
- More details about the nutrients: GPC and acetyl-l-carnitine
- And an interview with Joe Tatta to share his expertise (I’m the patient/client here and am in learning mode)
I wouldn’t suggest trying any of this yourself until I share more because from what I’ve learned so far, you need to slowly built up to certain of the exercises.
Updates 4/1/16:
Here is the first video (taken 3/16/16) where I share the story of the scary plane ride and my flu and the start of the throat spasms. You can hear how my voice sounds and how quickly 500mg GABA relaxes the spasms in my throat/neck. I share what I learned from Joe Tatta about it being connected the vagus nerve.
Here is the second video (also taken 3/16/16) where I demonstrate the 3-6-6 second breathing exercise and the happy birthday song humming exercise. I have to think of an actual birthday. I hum and think of my baby sister’s birthday (you can see those photos above). Be warned, I am what I call “musically challenged!”
Here is the third video (taken late evening 3/16/16) where you can hear how bad my voice and throat gets later in the day.
Here is the video taken at Heavenly ski resort on 3/27/16. You can see me doing my humming exercises in between skiing on this beautiful mountain and how I needed GABA after a strenuous ski run. And I summarize what has been working for me so far. I hope you enjoy the stunning scenery too! I feel so fortunate that we can hop in the car and visit such an amazing place like this on the weekend! It’s about 90 minutes up the hill from where we live.
And here is the final video in this series (taken yesterday 3/31/16). I demonstrate the exercises I am currently doing: 3-6-6 second breathing, humming (which has improved), the yawning and the tongue massage of the roof of my mouth. I also talk about GPC and acetyl-l-carnitine.
You can probably see and hear that I am much improved and have not needed much GABA for the last two days now. In the last week I have interviewed Dr. Josh Axe for his “Eat Dirt” book and Dr. Kelly Brogan for her “A Mind of Your Own” book. And Dr. David Brady has interviewed me for his June Fibrofix Summit and Dr. Eric Zielinski interviewed me for his August Essential Oils 2 Summit. For each interview I did my exercises right beforehand and took 500mg GABA half way through the interview.
Update: 4/8/16
I continue to improve and have not needed GABA for 4 days and only have a very mild hint of the throat feeling late evening.
Two days ago I added an essential oil called Parasympathetic. It contains clove and lemon and I’ll share more in a future post. Right now I can share that I used too much the first day and had the very dry mouth I experienced with too much GPC and acetyl-l-carnitine.
Update: 4/22/16
A quick update to let you know that my dry spasmodic cough has completely gone. I have not had any symptoms for a week and I have stopped the vagus nerve rehab exercises, GPC, acetyl-l-carnitine, the essential oil called Parasympathetic and GABA.
I so appreciate all the caring and concerned comments, feedback and ideas for me! And boy, am I grateful for Joe and his expertise!
I will still be interviewing Joe so he can share the theory and address questions so please post questions you may have.
If any of this resonates with you or if you have any other questions I’d love to hear back from you.
Please post them in the comments section below.
Hi, It seems Joe Tatta is talking about Dr. Kharrazian’s work which explains gargling (needs to be specific thought) to reactivate the vagus nerve? Yes? Ann UK
Ann
Yes you’re correct. I have heard Dr. Kharrazian talk about this and read about it in his book. I just have not experienced it all first-hand myself! I am learning that I need to go slow and do the rehab in stages. The gargling was too much for me too soon. I just met with Joe again and I’m going to stop the gargling for now.
Trudy, this is fascinating. When I went to see a herbal practitioner over 20 years ago he reckoned my digestive issues were a vagus nerve issue, probably stress-induced. This was long before Dr Kharrazian’s findings. Unfortunately he didn’t at that time have any method for vagal nerve stimulation. But I am now trying the Dr Kharrazian recommendations. May I ask what issues you found with gargling? I know that Dr Kharrazian recommends gargling aggressively until it induces tears, but that never happens with me – however hard I gargle, it doesn’t cause tear-ing. Am very interested to hear in what way it was too much too soon for you.
Tony
I agree, it’s all very fascinating! I’m going to be interviewing Joe so we can share all this For me, we met via skype and based on my symptoms (the voice issue and esophageal spasms) Joe recommended I start with the breathing exercises and humming (and the supps) with the plan to add gargling once I was seeing an improvement. I did see a huge improvement within a week and then a lot of the issues came back within a day of starting the gargling. So I’ve now stopped the gargling and will reintroduce later.
How has the gargling helped you? or has it not?
It seems to be helping somewhat, although I am going very slowly and also need to be more disciplined with it, as well as the abdominal breathing and inducing the gagging reflex. But I gather it can be a slow process and needs to be worked at. Perhaps if the vagus nerve is over-stimulated initially it can misfire to cause increased anxiety or other issues such as you experienced? I am looking forward to hearing you interview Joe. Please keep us updated! (And hope your cough is quickly sorted).
I have vagus nerve damage. Cardio thinks it is from my neck surgery. Lyme doctor thinks it’s Lyme. Other Lyme doctor thinks it’s a parasite and adrenal fatigue. You mentioned you can recommended a functional medical doctor or doctors you like in the Bay Area. Can you post? Thanks.
Dr. Suruchi Chandra is a great Lyme doctor in the Bay area
Ann Louise Gittleman has recently been talking about a hiatal hernia (most recently in an on-line summit). Can be caused by a myriad of factors. I have all the same symptoms as was mentioned in your recent post which are very similar to those of a hiatal hernia. I’m not a doctor — but perhaps get it checked out to make sure — and rule it out just to be sure.
Thanks Jean – I appreciate you letting me know! It’s always good to have back-up plan. Do you also have the voice issues and was it also triggered by a shock or some stress?
I self diagnosed my hiatal/hiatus hernia after listening to Ann Louise Gittleman. This was confirmed via Gastroscopy. I had acid reflux for over a year which would have been caused by this. I love learning and I am so grateful to all the wonderful people who share. Xxxx
Thanks for sharing too!
Reason I brought it up was because Dr. Gittleman kept emphasizing how the hiatal hernia can impinge on the Vagus nerve and resulting symptoms can be just about anything one can imagine. Hope you get the problem “fixed”. And please keep us posted on your progress. Thank you for all you do.
Thanks Jean – it makes sense and something I will consider if I don’t get further with this. I just intuitively felt that mine was triggered by the scary plane ride and Joe says this condition is always triggered by some type of scary event or trauma or stress.
But we know that Lyme and EBV and other things can be triggered by a stressful event so it’s good to be open to all possibilities – thanks again and you’ll be hearing the outcome as I go through this.
Do you also have the voice issues and was it also triggered by a shock or some stress?
Jean I somehow bumped into this stream of great information.I was diagnosed with Arnold Nerve Cough Syndrome in 2016 after over 30 years of suffering the horrible spasmodic cough that started after a respiratory infection. Initially the cough lasted for weeks, went away and came back after o csight a cold. Nearing 2004 the cough stayed with me all the time, misdiagnosed several times, given tons of medications based on my misdiagnosis and finally asked for a referral to Stanford. They couldn’t help. After my proper diagnosis I tried the gabapentin route to no avail. Found a dr in SF who prescribed Belbuba, 75mcg twice daily and within 2-3 days my cough stopped. It was prescribed for my chronic pain due to arthritis but has a side affect of stopping my cough. Mostly cough free until Feb 2019 when I caught this awful virus that is still going around and have been coughing since. I think you mentioned something about the hernia possibly pushing on the vagus nerve and am wondering if anything came of that as I also have a hernia, probably from all these years of coughing. It no doctor has related it to the vagus nerve. Thank you for any information.
I just had a chest x-ray today (I hate these things) but it was necessary. I inquired if it would also show a hiatal hernia and was told it would. I had a hiatal hernia diagnosed about 25 years ago or so when I first got sick. The illness turned out to be Lyme, (firm diagnosis 3 years ago.) I did some things recommended by my doctor at that time and it seemed to help me with the hernia. However, it appears the hernia can be triggered by a number of things, according to Ann Louise Gittleman. I think stress is a “biggy”, and compromised breathing from that doesn’t help. Then being in a plane and suddenly going downward, it seems like your organs are all going up real fast in your body too — seems like an ideal condition for something getting STUCK!!!
I’ve got the voice thing too. It comes and goes and has been going on for a couple of years or so. I’m always under stress due to this illness and its downward spiral,so I’m sure that’s a part of it too.
I think I “reactivated” the hernia when I nearly fell off my side steps. I was going down sideways that day with a couple of things in my hands and thought I was on the bottom step, but was actually on the second step. I caught myself but landed on one foot really hard, and I think that was the start of the hernia starting all over again. Numerous symptoms since that time which do not seem related to Lyme.
Maybe the Pyroluria is playing a part in what is happening and the cascade of events for you?
I think for me thyroid issues might be playing a part in the voice related stuff, as well as the hernia. Hoarseness is one of the symptoms of the hernia. But I think the aspect of the impingement on the vagus nerve is key. Also, I have seen my chiropractor and he seems to be helping me, even in only the past two visits. Too much STRESS.
I’ve been seeing a functional medicine doctor who uses a Thyroflex machine in his office. All the blood panels I’ve done over the years for thyroid hormones haven’t really helped at all. But I think I’m getting closer to getting the issues resolved with that. Have you had your adrenal glands tested since this traumatic event? What a horrible stressor that must have been in the plane.
Sometimes hard to put the pieces of the puzzle together. But sounds like you’ve got some good “Dr. Watsons'” help in your arsenal Sherlock!!
Jean
PS — Ann Louise Gittleman was shocked to find out she had a hernia herself. She’s got some info on her website. But if you can somehow listen to her talk on the summit, I think it’s really enlightening, and may be of help to some of those you wish to help in your practice. She called this “cutting edge” information. As I recall she said appr 8 out of 10 people have it (usually women) — but I may be mistaken on that number. But for some there are no symptoms, and for others — they get treated for their symptoms by conventional medicine, I would assume, without great results.
Ann Louise also talked about how the hernia can cause emotional ups and downs as well in addition to the physical problems. She said the hernia can cause just about any symptom one can imagine.
It’s very interesting to learn all this about hernias. I had no idea! So interesting about it impinging on the vagus nerve
Good luck with your healing journey!
I had a gastroscopy in February 2016. Since then I cannot seem to settle the acid reflux. Recently I have been experiencing hoarseness. It sounds like the vagus nerve is being affected as I have been stressed as to why I can’t manage the acid reflux and some personal issues that are also contributing.
Hi Trudy,
I live in NYC and want you to know that there is a respiratory infection going around now and in some people (like me ) a complete voice lost is a result. It has been since last Sunday and I still can not talk. It’s frustrating because nothing is working. I take supplements (spirulina, kelp, chlorela, astragalus, cat’s claw, etc. drink vitamix smoothies, eat healthy, organic food, so I feel good and look good, but can not talk. Started antibiotics yesterday, first time in ten years, but I have not notced any progress yet.
Monika
Thanks for the heads up – I hope you get better soon! It seems I am past the infection stage.
Trudy, I would recommend against using Neurontin. I have been on a tiny dose of 100 mg for several years for insomnia, but recently increased to 600 mg for 6 weeks for sciatica according to my docs advice. When I tried to decrease the dose below 300 mg I got hit with major withdrawl symptoms which worsened until I went back on 300 mg after 5 days. It was horrible with GI symptoms, major anxiety, and panic attacks. I’m trying a much slower taper now, and praying I can get off this stuff. I’m sure open to suggestions!
Lorraine
I am sorry to hear about the challenges you are having. Not many people are aware of the problems this medication can cause. And I totally agree – stay clear of neurontin/gabapentin. I mentioned it simply because the case study paper used it. As I said, I like to see GABA studied and used instead.
I would suggest finding a support group and looking into low neurotransmitters (low GABA, low serotonin) as addressing this could help with the sleep and pain, and may help with symptoms while you taper. Low endorphins can also affect pain levels and the amino acids DPA can help. You can find the amino acid questionnaire, precautions and the supps I use here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/
Joe is a pain expert and may have some ideas for your sciatica.
I’ve been through the ringer as far as trying to discover what is causing all the medical problems I’m experiencing. I started having idiopathic neuropathy in my feet a little over 13 years ago, and then 4 years ago as we were going through a stressful adoption with our daughter who has some behavioral issues I started going into Afib. I’ve had a cardioversion twice and a complete cardio workup and once again the term idiopathic gets assigned to me along with the good old standby of you’re overweight and 50 it’s to be expected. Add on top of all of this I lost my sense of smell and have been congested for 2 1/2 years. I had sinus surgery which helped my asthma for a few months and then I ended up getting pneumonia and had to have 4 rounds of antibiotics to kick that. So now I’m still having episodes of Afib surrounding the times I’m stressed or when I’m about ready to start my cycle. My primary care physician thinks that this may have something to do with my vagus nerve stimulating my heart into Afib and prescribed a generic benzodiazepine. I have to say it does work but I’m very concerned about taking this long term. I’m also taking 400 mg Gabapentin 2 times a day for my neuropathy. I’ve tried going gluten free and did it for 7 months and NOTHING improved. Having two young children ages 6 and 10 years old I just want to feel better. It’s super hard to fall asleep due to my congestion and neuropathy and I’m sure not getting enough quality rest to repair anything. So frustrating. I just wish there was a doctor out there that had the time to really look into what is happening. I feel like life is just passing me by.
Julia
Gosh I’m sorry to hear about all of this. I would suggest starting with Gabapentin – one of the side effects is atrial fibrillation. This is not ok: “you’re overweight and 50 it’s to be expected.”
The term “idiopathic” drives me nuts! Here is a great article on peripheral neuropathy, some of the causes and the use of acetl-l-carnitine http://www.naturalmedicinejournal.com/journal/2010-08/therapeutic-effects-acetyl-l-carnitine-peripheral-neuropathy-review-literature
I would really caution you about the benzodiazepines- they are not intended for long-term use. I just blogged about this as I’m very concerned about this class of medications https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/benzodiazepine-informed-consent/
Hearing lose of smell and the immune problems I’d look into low zinc.
Finding a good functional medicine doctor is going to be your best option
Thank you so much! Can you recommend a good functional medicine doctor in the Fair Oaks, CA area or Sacramento? I have Kaiser insurance so I know that won’t be of any use but I’m willing to pay out of pocket to get to the bottom of this.
Thanks ever so much.
Warmly,
Julia
I’m afraid I don’t have someone to recommend. Would you be willing to travel to the Bay area? If you let me know what you are looking for in terms of help, I could refer a few people there. Are you looking for help to get off the meds too?
Hi Trudy,
I’m glad you mentioned atrial fibrillation as a side-effect of Gabapentin. AFib runs in my family, but there’s a deadly off-shoot of it called Long-QT Syndrome. This is where the heart beats really fast, and then there’s a prolonged Q-T interval, where the heart does not catch up in time to beat, potentially ending in death. This is what many healthy people, who suddenly die while exercising, end up dying from, when they’d never shown any symptoms before.
I do not normally have this condition, but I have had it with certain medications that affect the Q-T Interval. This includes antidepressants, especially SNRIs (as they affect norepinephrine, and the adrenaline rush can lead the heart to beat really fast, potentially affecting this heart interval… which is what’s done with a heart stress test).
Gabapentin is another medication that affects the Q-T interval. I recently was given increased dosage of Gabapentin to try to help with central neuropathy, but I kept passing out. I’d had Long QT Syndrome show up on my tests in the ER, so I asked the doctor if Gabapentin affected this interval, and he confirmed it did. I told him I could not take any meds that affected QT, as I get this condition, which one can suddenly lose consciousness and die.
Since I couldn’t tolerate the increased Gabapentin, the doctor put me on an antidepressant, which turned out to be an SNRI, and I did nearly die. Why this doctor put me on a drug that ended up affecting the QT interval when I’d told him I could not tolerate them is beyond me. Unfortunately, this kind of thing is rampant in the (western) medical profession, where doctors are “encouraged” to put patients on new, ultra-expensive medications for profit.
Anyway, people really need to be careful with these medications. I’ve dealt with all sorts of horror stories, with medication side-effects, physician and pharmacy mistakes, as well as pharmaceutical company and FDA issues (falsifying/misrepresenting information, pushing medications… ha, I have to laugh at that whole false “war on drugs” thing… these with pharmaceuticals are much like drug dealers).
Of course, I shouldn’t generalize, but unfortunately I’ve suffered 22 years of horrific nerve pain from damage from an antidepressant that was wrongly given to me by a doctor when I was trying to find out why I suddenly kept getting recurring respiratory infections. This doctor had just met me and gave me the prescription in under 5 minutes. That was 23 years ago, so he was ahead of his time! 🙂
Oh, while on this topic of Long QT, one must be careful with the amino acids that affect norepinephrine as well. Also, I heard 5-HTP can cause increased cortisol, which I was unaware of before. I have increased cortisol at night and almost 0 in the morning, when it’s supposed to be the highest. So, that might explain why I have better results taking 5-HTP in the morning than evening. If you have any info on that it would be great to hear.
Sorry to ramble! I so very much appreciate you sharing your work and increasing awareness about these medications, providing other alternatives.
Kimberly
Thanks for sharing all this and sorry to hear what you have been through.
I do have my clients avoid 5-HTP and use tryptophan instead when we know cortisol is high. There is one study that shows this connection and often you will feel wired tired when taking 5-HTP.
I’d like to hear what you mean by this:” while on this topic of Long QT, one must be careful with the amino acids that affect norepinephrine as well”?
Thanks Trudy,
For example, L-Tyrosine affects dopamine and norepinephrine. So this can lead to the same Long QT issues. Palpitations and anxiety have been linked as possible side effects from L-Tyrosine.
However I did not know this until after ordering GABA Calm online, as it was recommended as the top product for your clients with anxiety. However, upon taking this at night, I wondered why I had strange symptoms. So, upon looking more into the ingredients, I researched and found this ingredient has the above possible side effects as well as possible migraines, etc., and is not recommended for those who’ve had bipolar tendencies (which ironically can be misdiagnosis of the kind of cortisol situation I described above).
My local store only had the Theanine Serine, which I’d tried first, but did not get results (likely because of the capsule and blood-brain barrier issue). So, that’s when I ordered the GABA Calm.
However, I take responsibility for this, as I did not look at every ingredient and research first before trying it. Gabapentin has never even touched my pain, and my nervous system is constantly in fight or flight, so there’s that feeling of anxiety most the time. I figured Gabapentin didn’t work because of the blood-brain issue and was really hoping GABA would work, if I got it in the right form. So I got the lozenge but didn’t look into the rest. Brain fog and brain on fire doesn’t help much when having to research everything.
Anyway, even L-Tyrosine doesn’t affect everyone the same, and I certainly have a complex case. People just need to be aware and proceed with caution with these things.
Julia, this sounds like 3 common Lyme symptoms. Please check info on ILADS.com. These were several of my early chronic Lyme symptoms. Hope I’m wrong.
Aargh. ILADS.org. Not -.com Sorry!
Hi Trudy,
Thanks for sharing your story and all the information! I’d never heard about that diagnosis before. I have had a chronic cough, mostly dry, for more than 3 years. It started pretty suddenly. I do have allergies but it doesn’t really seem to be related. I’m very fascinated by the vagus nerve connection and I’m looking forward to hearing more about it.
Marie
Sorry to hear about that and yes stay tuned as I learn more and share more
Thanks for doing this. I don’t have cough but sometimes get what I refer to as esophageal spasms but believe there is a vegas connection. Have spoken to doctors about it before and they have always thought it is GERD related. I have also had few issues with tachardia in the past and believe it is a vegal pathway that triggers its onset. will look forward to hearing more about the exercises and write ups on this.
Edward
From what I’m learning GERD, a cough and the vagus nerve issues can all be connected. Dr Kharrazian writes about the vagus nerve in his book “Why isn’t my brain working” and he recommends gargling, singing and stimulating the gag reflex. From my work with Joe it appears you need to go slow and work up to certain exercises. I’ve found this out the hard way as it had a slight setback once I introduced the gargling – obviously too much too soon.
Stay tuned as I learn more. In the meantime I’d like to hear about your esophageal spasms so I can understand this more. For me it feels like a tight constriction, sometimes just in the throat area and other times from the throat all the way down to my belly button area. Joe describes it “like someone punched you in the gut.” This hasn’t ever been done to me but I imagine it’s like feeling winded.
The GABA has been particularly helpful for stopping the spasm in it’s tracks especially this week when I had to do some phone interviews. I also notice a big difference right after doing the breathing and humming exercises.
Trudy, Its hard to describe mine. Not even sure if they are esophageal in nature truly. When they happen it feels almost like a winding, suffocating internal spasm. It is a tightening/constriction but not all the way down to my belly button but more upper/center chest. I really don’t have any cough symptoms. If I have water readily available it seems to remedy quickly but I’m not convinced it is a dehydration issue. I don’t see any difference with eating meals with more/less or even without liquid. I don’t get them daily but they can be scary when they happen and provoke fear. I need to remain calm so it doesn’t trigger rapid heart beat. I just want to not have them. This whole theme of fear is also interesting in these posts as in Chinese medicine I believe the fear meridian runs through the kidney.
Thanks for sharing Edward – that seems similar to what I experience. I’ll be posting a few videos in the next few days – with me the midst of a spasm.
Interestingly enough I am more intrigued and observant than afraid when mine happen.
I’m not sure what the connection to fear and the kidney means?
But the big thing is that as with any condition there can be many causes.
Trudy,
This is totally FASCINATING! My mom & I have had a cough for decades (me 14 years and her 30 some). I just finished a book about mystery coughs, but the doc uses drugs to deal with it – gabapentin and others. Since I didn’t want to go that route, in my searching I found you (again!) and this thread. I’m headed out to get some GABA and start the exercises. According to the book I just finished I have silent reflux as well, so your statement above “GERD, a cough and the vagus nerve issues can all be connected” rings true with me. Can you direct me to anything online I can read that connects those dots?
Thank you so much for all your curiosity and sharing! It’s helping the rest of us!
Tatia
Super! Please let us know how you and your mom respond to the GABA and exercises. Could you please share the name of the book you’re referring to?
For GERD I’d consider gluten for sure and low stomach acid (covered here in my Liz Lipski interview https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-digestion-microbiome-stomach-acid-bile-vagus-nerve/) and SIBO (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/sibo-small-intestinal-bacterial-overgrowth-questionnaire/)
Thank you, Trudy!
The book is called “The Chronic Cough Enigma” by Dr. Jamie Koufman. She has three forms in the book that she uses in her practice to help her identify what her patients are suffering. The interesting thing is that she asks questions in those charts that NO one has ever asked my mom or I. Things like does change of temp make you cough or when you bend over or laughing or talking on the phone. All of those were yes and most correlated to a neurogenic based cough. Those were invaluable! I was excited reading the book until I got to her treatment plans of low fat, low acid diet and drugs. But just the tool alone was invaluable for self diagnosis.
I could only find GABA in my local store at 750mg but I got it anyway. Morning is usually worse for my cough and I had it ready this morning. Guess what?? It did the trick! Calmed it almost instantly. So exciting. I cough a lot, will it be ok to need 750mg many times during the day? Can I take too much GABA?
Thank you for the links! Will be checking them out today.
Tatia
Thanks for sharing – someone else mentioned this book and I need to check it out. I’m also not to excited about the low fat/low acid diet and drugs especially when GABA and these vagus nerve exercises seem to work (although I’m sure there is complexity as there is with anything). And now you’ve seen the GABA help you! how wonderful! I used more than I expected I’d need so it sounds like you may have found your ideal amount. Too much can make you tired or breathless.
Please come back and share how you continue to do!
Vegas nerve problems can cause arrhythmia’s. Arrhythmias due to vegas nerve problems are often missed by traditional cardiologists and patients are provided with medication instead. The vegas regulates heart rate variability.
Joe,
I’m assuming tachycardia would fall into this same category? My 18 year old son is diagnosed with tachycardia and they wanted to do an ablation surgery, but my son didn’t want to do surgery. Could vagas nerve exercises help him also?
Thank you for sharing this. I am one such patient. I experienced a Sudden Cardiac Arrest due to a Left Bundle Branch Block. The only drug that addressed my heart’s rhythm was Xanax. However, recently I’ve become aware of the concerns of this drug class and wanted something more natural. I am grateful to Trudy for the information about GABA Calm as an alternative when needed. I have a long QT interval which is elongated with certain drugs, so I am hesitant about using any drugs, especially addictive ones. Months following my heart event I struggled with my “little voice”. When I tried to do to much and got over tired or when I got stressed, my voice would fade and it would be almost impossible for my vocal chords to work. My inquiries to my cardiologist as to why did I get this “little voice” fell on deaf ears. I was just told to “wait and see”. I started doing my research and learned about the vagus nerve and GABA. I am grateful to have found an integrative cardiologist that understands nutrition that had me tested for MTHFR, and addressed some of my nutritional deficiencies. Currently I am working closely with a biochemist to address other nutritional deficiencies and a systemic overgrowth of Candida. As my nutritional status improved, so did my “little voice”. I am so grateful on “My Road Trip to Health” and you can read more on my website by the same name.
Yes!
I had Cushing’s Disease for years before being diagnosed in early 2009. Pituitary surgery in late 2009.
It affected every system in my body and made me look like I was on massive doses of prednisone even though I was not.
Summer of ’14 I decided to clean up my foods and work on kicking my sugar habit. I did an elimination diet but had to keep eliminating more foods due to symptoms. It was an eye opener! Turns out I have ‘leaky gut’. During this time my defibrillator began to discharge but cardiologists could not figure out why.
I finally figured it out. It was caused by certain foods that would cause congestion (inflammation) in chest then head, nasal and/or ears. If I could not get that down fast my heart would kick in then go crazy and set defib off. My cardios did not believe me and told me I needed a cardiac ablasion. They found nothing.
Meanwhile, I was in a car accident that caused muscle and nerve bruising. About a month later I began reacting to ALL foods except fermented veggies. I kept comllaining to my cardio and hematologist about a pain in my throat. Not a soar throat…a pain. My hematologist said all my symptoms (stomach, heart etc) sounded like my nervous system. I began zeroing in on symptoms closer and noticed I had the foods triggering as well as any amou t of stress. Simply thinking of a task set off the pain in my throat, head/ear inflammation (congestion) and heart thumping.
I used calming essential oils, prayer/mediation on scripture and Borion’s Sinusalia or Cold Calm for quick relief. I also carry a bottle of saline nasal spray and use a netty pot often.
I had a flare up due to an exciting opportunity that also made me anxious (easily anxious) and found an article on ALC reversing nerve damage. I use that daily along with a B Complex and Alpha Lipoic Acid and began going to a chiropractor. It’s worked great! My symptoms would be totally gone within 15 minutes of taking.
I took CBD once and that worked amazingly fast and very well. It was a friends and I have not bought any for myself.
I’ve considered GABA but have not added that yet.
Feels great to figure it out.
Thanks for sharing Kat. I wonder if your car accident affected your vagus nerve and triggered the food reactions. I’m glad to hear you’re doing better.
I’ve been looking into CBD oil for clients with anxiety (for folks who don’t seem to get complete benefits from GABA /tryptophan) and would love to hear more and how it helped you? and which product you used?
DOes anyone else get a full stomach and fast heart beat after eating? Could this be vagus related?
Trudy,
I’ve had a chronic dry cough for about 10 days now. My acupuncturist says it is related to the pine pollen. I am taking some Chinese herbs for coughing and I have tried all kinds of teas, steam, essential oils both on my chest with heating pad and oils in hot water that I breathe. Nothing is really helping. I can only sleep for 30- 60 minutes at a time and I am so grateful for that. Lying down makes the coughing worse.
I’m going to try GABA in the morning as soon as WholeFoods opens.
You say not to try it until I read more of your blog. I will keep reading but I need some relief. My temperature goes up and down between 101 and 102 F. I read that that is not that unusual to have a temp with an allergic reaction such as this. Do you have any suggestions other tha GABA for stopping this cough?
You mention GPC and Acetyl-L-Carnitine but you don’t give dosages for those.
Ann
I’m sorry to hear about your cough. I can’t make recommendations via this blog and I’m sure you understand that I’m just sharing what is working for me. The GABA is working for me because of the spasms in my esophagus and issues with my vagus nerve. It’s hard to know what the cause of your cough is. You have a fever and this sounds very different and I would stick with your acupuncturist’s recommendations, and consider getting a second opinion.
If you do decide to try the GABA please read the amino acid precautions https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acid-precautions/ and be aware than 500mg is a high amount to start with. I have most of my clients start with 125mg. Also, too much GABA can cause breathlessness.
I don’t know enough yet to share more about GPC and Acetyl-L-Carnitine but I’m using these specifically for my vagus nerve issue.
I can share that homeopathics Roxalia and Drosera have helped my cough/voice in the past when it was due to an infection. With homeopathics you need to find the formula specific to the symptoms you have.
Please get a TB test and lung x-ray if you are having coughing and fevers. Better safe than sorry. Also a Mediterranean Diet with lots of real vitamin E in the alpha-tocopheral form from olive oil is said to give the people in that part of the world fewer respiratory infections and less asthma.
P.S. Levaquin is wonderful antibiotic for pneumonia and saves lives. There is a risk of spontaneous tendon rupture, but as I said, it still saves lives. I know of people who would not have made it without the Levaquin. I also know of people that didn’t get the Levaquin till almost too late and their heart and lungs had a lot of fighting to do from a hospital bed, and some didn’t make it. Fear of a good and proven medicine is not good. Know the risks and benefits. Also, I do like using GABA or L-dopa when and occasion seems to warrant it.
Beebs
Thanks for weighing in but I would have a TB test and lung x-ray as a later option after working with nutrients, homeopathy and other approaches.
I would say no to Levaquin as it’s a fluoroquinolone antibiotic. You can read more here https://floxiehope.com/
Trudy, Hi from a fellow South African! The vagus nerve issue seems to be on my radar. My granddaughter (5 mths) has serious reflux. Amongst other practitioners she is also treated by an osteopath which is of the opinion that it has to do with the functioning of the vagus nerve. Will you pls report if you stumble upon more info in this regard?
Hi Sanet in South Africa!
I’m sorry to hear about your granddaughter but glad to hear she is being treated by an osteopath. This is not an area of my expertise and I’ll see if Joe can come and comment on the vagus nerve connection and reflux in babies. Dr. Kharrazian does talk about it briefly in his book “Why isn’t my brain working” but I’m not sure what approaches would help in babies. For adults he recommends gargling, singing and stimulating the gag reflex.
I assume you’re looking at food allergies/sensitivities too, especially dairy and gluten.
About the baby with reflux. My grandson had terrible reflux and was being nursed as best my daughter could manage. With all the stress of not sleeping it caused her to get breast infection after breast infection and thus, a decline in milk production. Anyway, baby boy could not lay flat on his back as doctors say to lay babies now, so, she was told to give baby a common reflux medicine and put him in a reclined arrangement (ask your doctor about this). Anyway, mommy and him finally got some sleep. Stress reduces milk production ladies. The numerous experts in breastfeeding that she consulted blamed his crying on “latch” issues. But being a an experienced nursing mom in the past, this grandma put him on my own breast to see how he did. To say the least the kid had an overdeveloped strength of suction like you would not believe! He had been fighting for every drop for a couple months. His hunger woke him up along with the reflux. Sadly my daughter’s breast infections never would go away for long even after antibiotics. Finally they turned to formula bottle feeding and the baby slept deeper and longer than he ever had prior to it. With the reclining position and reflux meds finally baby and mom got the rest they both needed. In a perfect world we would not need bottles and formula, or antibiotics, but we are in a fallen world, but thankfully we have technology to prop us up occasionally.
Signed,
Happy Grandma of Many
Thanks Beebs – glad to hear both mom and baby are doing well. I do hope you and your daughter are also looking into food sensitivities as a factor in the reflux. I am not an expert in reflux in babies so here is a great blog post with some options to consider http://www.mamanatural.com/natural-remedies-for-baby-reflux/
Check for food sensitivities. This can cause reflux via the vegas and the gut-brain connection.
With the fright issue which precipitated the flu and cough you might want to look at Aconite homeopathic remedy . It is for fright and fear of death. May calm the issue. Read abouththesymptome in Materia medica online and see if it fits.
Thanks Chris. I appreciate the feedback. I’m not planning to add anything else right now since I am working with Joe, but I’m always wanting to learn.
It may be helpful to try Homeopathic aconite. The remedy is used when someone develops a symptom or condition after a fearful experience. I love your book and appreciate you sharing your knowledge! All the best, Kristen
Kristen
Thanks for the suggestion. I do well with homeopathics and used these when in the early/acute stages of the the flu: Drosera, Oscillococcinum and Boiron Cold Calm together with Boiron Roxalia. These are my go-to remedies plus oregano and garlic at the first sign of a cold or cough.
I’d like to know more about aconite and if it’s been show to help with vagus nerve issues? I did a quick online search and found this scary report http://www.thepoisonreview.com/2010/02/11/aconite-killer-convicted/.
I’m aware that “Homeopathy is a system of medicine which involves treating the individual with highly diluted substances, given mainly in tablet form, with the aim of triggering the body’s natural system of healing. Based on their specific symptoms, a homeopath will match the most appropriate medicine to each patient.” (http://www.homeopathy-soh.org/about-homeopathy) And wonder if could you share a good resource/link for homeopathic aconite?
I’m not planning to add anything else right now since I am working with Joe, but I’m always wanting to learn
So glad to hear you love my book!
I just found this great review http://www.britishhomeopathic.org/bha-charity/how-we-can-help/medicine-a-z/aconite/ and this description is perfect for how I felt: “Indeed so great may that fear be that the individual actually feels that death may be imminent, and they have a presentiment about precisely when they are actually going to die. And they will be terrified at the prospect.”
I’m sorry you’ve been having such a difficult time recently. I’m currently using a TENS machine to stimulate my Vagus nerve. These articles describe how and why that works:
http://www.cortjohnson.org/blog/2014/08/29/system-reset-reduce-fight-flight-response/
http://bmccomplementalternmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1472-6882-12-255
http://www.cortjohnson.org/blog/2015/05/13/reborn-reversing-fibromyalgia-with-vagus-nerve-stimulation/
It seems to be helping, although I’m doing other things as well (like relaxation exercises every day) so it is hard to be sure.
Sue
Thanks for sharing these links (great info!) and glad to hear this seems to be helping. May I ask what improvements you are observing?
The improvements include:
better ability to tolerate stimulation (for instance watching television without becoming anxious, or engage in conversation)
improved appetite
being able to use my spinning wheel more often and for longer
concentrate on more serious reading
Still very tired and fairly easily tipped into anxiety or depression, but beginning to see light at the end of the tunnel. Fingers crossed!
Really interesting. Transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation is considered “experimental” but it is often used in practice. One should begin with just two minutes and increase the time every three days increasing by about one-minute. Some people have paradoxical effects from too much. This will be used more in the future as it offers promise.
Another improvement – my bowels are calmer than they were : )
Hi Trudy, I had these symptoms you experience during many years.The dry cough was attacking me suddenly and it happened the first time after I had a cold. It was many years ago and it was going on for many years. this was very disturbing as I was those days a teacher.It was so bad that I trow away sometime too. I tried many treatments then I found a Echinacea liquid extract that I put some drops whenever I had an attack. It was helping but still it was returning and annoying. I asked myself what can make it easier and concluded that I need a way to soften the area and to change the dry cough to wet one, I knew that flax seeds have the ability to be gel form. So I have a recipe that helped me very quickly and hope it can help you and all the other sufferers.
one Table Spoon of flax seeds and 3 cups of water. bring the seeds and water to a boil. simmer for 20 minutes. turn off fire and wait until cooler. strain and zip\drink as necessary. I know it seems simple and not related to the deep conversation here but it helped me a lot!!
Thanks for sharing Rachel – as we know there can be many causes/solutions for any condition. I’m glad you found your solution. I would be careful about boiling flax seeds as the heat can be problematic. I would simply soak them overnight in water.
Hi Trudy quick question about gaba. Because of your book I was able to have daughter 15, diagnosed with Pyroluria. so grateful for your work! We are making very very slow progress with p5p zinc and epo. I woumd like to try gaba with her as her symptoms fit the questionnaire for low gaba. Unfortunately gaba is illegal in New Zealand 🙁 Is there anything else we could try?
Meegan
So pleased to hear you have found answers for your daughter! For GABA, some people choose to get it mail order. But if it’s the physical anxiety then theanine may be the next best option.
None of the websites I buy from will send GABA in the mail to NZ because of the legal status here. Thank you so much Trudy, after more research on your website I went with Theanine to try for her. So great that your reply confirms this, will see how it goes. Also such an interesting conversation about the vagus nerve here too, I’m a craniosacral therapist and the vagus nerve and central nervous system are a special interest. 🙂
Meegan
Glad to hear – please do keep us updated on her progress. Just a heads up that when you have the correct protocol for pyroluria this can often help with both low GABA and low serotonin symptoms since zinc and Vitamin B6 are co-factors for making the neurotransmitters. Here is a pyroluria troubleshooting checklist https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-protocol-why-arent-i-getting-results-trouble-shooting-checklist/
I’d love to hear more about your craniosacral work and how this helps vagus nerve issues and the CNS.
Trudy, your experience mirrors mine almost exactly. I had a frightening plane flight years ago and began having bizarre GI symptoms following the experience. I also have the throat issues, like yours, where I feel like after only talking for minutes my throat feels tired like I have been talking for hours and hours. My throat aches but not like a sore throat if that makes sense. I can tell that my vagus nerve has been affected in some way, and my motility is not functioning properly. I would greatly appreciate your feedback. In addition to the humming which I am not fully sure the protocol, can you please share other suggestions…? I wonder how many others that have these odd symptoms… I had to read your post numerous times because it is so close to my story especially how so many things evolved after the VERY stressful plane flight. I was so petrified with the plane flying in the thunderstorm that once it landed I did not know how I would get home….I have even wondered if this could be related to SIBO known as Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth . It causes a great deal of backed up pressure from the intestines backed up air into the esophagus and can affect swallowing, belching, reflux, exhaustive throat, etc… I have known others with SIBO who had their own throat issues from excess Methane or Hydrogen from Bacterial Overgrowth in the Small Intestine. SIBO causes a myriad of mystery maladies. I have heard of people getting their SIBO numbers in check and many of their symptoms are greatly minimized. This is done through a Breath Test. For more information on SIBO you may consider http://www.siboinfo.com/ or https://www.facebook.com/groups/470628319710443/
I do have SIBO and am the moderator of the Facebook group and that is just one of the reasons your story caught my attention. The other is your story so closely resembles mine and many others minus the plane flight. Kenny
Kenny
Wow, so many similarities! Thanks for sharing and sorry you had to go through that scary plane ride experience! I’ve not ever been afraid flying before (except for a pretty bumpy landing going into Palm Springs) and I was actually feeling fine and over it by the time we landed. But I did google how easy is it for the wings of planes to break off and I was pleased to see it’s very rare.
Yes a big connection between SIBO and the vagus nerve and gut motility. Thanks for sharing those links. I joined the FB group and I love Dr. Siebecker. I actually interviewed her on the Anxiety Summit (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-intestinal-bacterial-overgrowth-anxiety/). But I was not aware of methane or hydrogen gases from SIBO backing up into the esophagus and contributing to something like this. Interestingly enough I do happen to have SIBO and I wonder if there is a connection?
I’m gathering additional resources and specifics on what I’m doing to share. I have a video to share (so you can see what I am doing – will post in the next day or 2) and will be interviewing Joe Tatta because I want to make sure you hear about this from the expert. I’ve added the SIBO question to my list of questions for him.
Trudy, as moderator of a Facebook SIBO support group with over 8,000 members I can confirm that over 90% of our group that has not gone through a SIBO protocol start out with HIGH level of anxiety, depression, etc… This is often a topic of discussion. I have seen these same individuals share how much better they are in this area once they get their Methane and Hydrogen numbers down by killing off their overgrowth of bacteria! Since the bulk of our Serotonin is created in our GI system, it is easy to connect the dots to point the finger at SiBO as the culprit for their anxiety and depression. Many of these people do not get relief from meds or even herbs for their depression until they address SIBO. I hope it is ok to post this link, if not, feel free to remove. This is the link to our Facebook support group for people with SIBO. https://www.facebook.com/groups/470628319710443/
Thanks! Kenny
Kenny
90% is a high number. wow! And yes, for many people it’s the SIBO that is a factor (possibly one of a few) in the anxiety/depression. I like to have my clients use the amino acids GABA and tryptophan to ease the anxiety on day 1 because, as you well know, it can sometimes take a long time to get rid of the SIBO.
It’s great to share the link – thanks for the work you do to bring awareness! and for posting here on the blog. Videos coming tomorrow
I may have SIBO too…I have issues with FODMAP foods certainly. And Trudy is right, using GABA helps with anxiety as you follow a SIBO protocol because it does take time to correct it.
PC
Thanks for sharing and glad to hear the GABA helps with your anxiety. All the best with addressing your SIBO. I assume you’re familiar with Dr. Siebecker’s work? if not check out http://www.siboinfo.com and my interview with her on the last Anxiety Summit https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-intestinal-bacterial-overgrowth-anxiety/
Sorry you are having a rough time since the flight. I have had many things happen since a very stressful surgery. I think there is a connection to the stress of the flight and your issues as well. It must have affected your immune system. I sent you info about RCCX that is being researched. I also think the Limbic system of the brain is involved. I am not sure of the vagus connection to the limbic yet but believe it is there. I suffer from dysatuonomia problems since those stresors and that is definately the vagus nerve. You experienced a fear and your body must be processing it. I look forward to your solution to the problem. Perhaps it will help others like me. I hope you find total relief soon.
Thanks Candy and yes I do think the stressful flight was the trigger for me. I’m sorry to hear about your stressful surgery too.
I’m sure what you’re referring to with this: I sent you info about RCCX that is being researched. It’s best to share via a link in a follow-up comment please.
I’ll be posting more on the vagus nerve issue. The last few days have been much better!
Hi Trudy,
I’m curious if there is a vagus nerve component with Eosinophilic esophagitis. It’s a sudden swelling of the esophagus that prevents swallowing of food. I have allergies and have had asthma in the past and recently started experiencing the sudden closing of my esophagus while eating. Originally I thought it had to do with the food I was eating at the time, now I think it ‘just happens’ … I’m trying Be Calm now before meals but I’m wondering if some of the vagus nerve exercises might be appropriate as well?
Lisa
Thanks for the question – I dn’t know the answer until I searched pubmed and it seems yes there is very likely a connection http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24875100
I can’t say if the exercises would help you but I’d suggest finding a PT to assess your condition and do ask this question about the vagus nerve.
Hi Trudy. I thought about your blog post the other day when I realized that if I hummed loudly or did an “omm” sound that I momentarily felt alert and awake. This is a major issue as I am currently battling the trifecta of Lyme, babesia, and EBV and have difficulty feeling awake in the morning. Could this be connected to your humming and stimulating the vagus nerve? Thanks.
Lisa
I’m sorry to hear about your Lyme, babesia, and EBV and glad to hear the humming helps. This blog lists 12 benefits of humming http://thehealthylivinglounge.com/2009/08/06/12-instant-benefits-of-humming-daily/ this is #2 “Promotes clarity of thinking by refreshing your mind. You can physically feel the vibration of the “hum” clear out the cob webs.”
I’m thankful to come upon the article about sensory vagal neuropathy…I don’t feel “crazy” anymore!! My symptoms started after a respiratory virus in July 2015. The main symptom was a horrific cough, which could be triggered by laughing, eating/swallowing, talking…and touching my ear with a Q-tip!! I now have asthma symptoms but it is slowly getting better… The eyes of healthcare providers would just glaze over when I continued to seek help, guidance and relief from them. Lots of anxiety through the process. Now I have hives everyday. Think I’ll explore the connection with the vagas and try GABA. Any additional thoughts?
Victoria
I would suggest finding a PT who can do an assessment and help guide you. If you decide to do a GABA trial do the amino acid questionnaire, check the precautions and read this blog about doing a trial (everything is on this blog).
Here is a blog on various different GABA products https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/gaba-calming-amino-acid-products-results/ I have been using 500mg GABA which is a high dose. I always have my clients start low and increase as needed. The one big caution is that too much GABA can cause breathlessness so it’s a balancing act.
It would be great if this approach helps your anxiety too. Please keep us posted.
I’m not sure what to think of the hives – food sensitivity? candida? medication reaction?
Victoria, your symptoms sound exactly how it is described in a book The chronic cough enigma by Dr Jamie Koufman. She has a questionnaire in a book to determine where your symptoms are coming from: silent reflux (GERD without heartburn) and/or post-viral vagal neuropathy.
Dr Koufmann is saying: If you have asthma, ask this question: “When you have trouble breathing, do you have more trouble getting air in (during inspiration) or out (during expiration)? If the answer is in, it`s reflux, and if the answer is out, it`s asthma”.
She has a conventional approach for treating symptoms: low-fat, low-acid diet (for reflux) and low doses of anti-depressants (like amitriptyline 2.5-10 mg a day) for a period of 10 mnths or so for neurotic cough. She sees patients in New York and I highly recommend her book.
I don`t have cough but I am suffering from post-nasal drip with silent reflux for 2,5 years. Dr Koufmann is saying: “Nocturnal reflux can cause sinus symptoms, the most common of which is post-nasal drip”. I have recently started supplementing with Betaine HCL to increase my stomach acidity which potentially should help me to get rid of reflux. We’ll see.
Gala
Thanks for sharing this resource (which I didn’t know about). I found this link from her site http://www.voiceinstituteofnewyork.com/patient-services/treatments/diagnosis-treatment-of-chronic-cough/ and will check out the book and her references to vagal neuropathy/neurogenic cough (for myself).
I would, of course, recommend an alternative to the anti-depressant. And would not recommend a low fat diet
All the best with your post-nasal drip. I assume you’ve removed gluten and dairy? and this is covered in her book as being possible culprits in some cases?
Trudy,
I do avoid dairy coz it makes my symptoms worse, along with coffee and chocolate. Gluten does not affect me at all.
Once I found this book I went to see my naturopath who told me he never heard of it and does not know how to treat it. Although he recommended me 1) to try capsicum spray that can help with neurogenic cough, which I don`t have; 2) test for SIBO (which I believe based on my symptoms I don’t have). I have reflux due to low stomach acidity (test for H-Pylori came back negative).
Unfortunately, my naturopath does not know how to help vagal neuropathy with natural supplements and Dr Koufmann makes conventional recommendations – low acid diet and drugs.
Have you heard about the ways to treat silent reflux/GERD?
Sounds like you may benefit from some vegas nerve therapy! Start with humming 3-10 times a day. Try happy birthday!
I have been told and read a few places that bowel issues like constipation and lack of movement of bowels is related to the vangus nerve…so would on need to stimulate it then to get things going? Is it related to lack of stimulation…sounds like others have the an over active bowels so I am thinking I should avoid gaba if calms or slows things…curious what others think and have experienced and how it relates?
Chris
Yes there is a big vagus nerve digestion connection. I have not seen GABA affect digestion in any way
Without reviewing the entire anatomy of the vegas nerve, which is extensive it does innervate the small intestine and influences motility. It generally does not innervate the large intestine completely.
Trudy,
Watching you yawn made me yawn for real, and then when I faked a yawn to follow you, right after that I had to really yawn again. And now typing this I am yawning again and getting sleepy…… May be the GABA I took in the middle of watching you. It has helped the spasms in my neck from being hunched over my laptop for quite awhile.
Thank you so much for your videos showing how to do the exercises. I know we all appreciate your helping us too.
I am curious — have you seen a chiropractor since experiencing this awful plane ride? I have been helped tremendously with a lot of issues with chiropractic intervention. I’ve had Lyme and coinfections for almost 30 years.
Jean
Jean
You’re so welcome and glad to hear the GABA helped your neck spasms.
I have not been to see my chiropractor yet
traditional chiropractic adjustment does not affect the vegas nerve as it is a cranial nerve and does not exit through the vertebral column but comes directly off the brain stem. Interesting anatomy!
Hello Trudy,
so sorry to hear about your troubling issue and hope you will recover fully soonest.
I have not read the sequence of comments from your viewers and your response, but you functional medical practitioners have so convinced me of the interconnection of the entire bodily system that I am reminded of “That Vitamin Movie.” It is a beautiful and very informative series of interviews of physicians and researchers, prominently featuring Andrew Saul and his conviction that Vitamin C is super-effective in combatting any weaknesses in the immune system, also those caused by stress.
It may be simplistic to suggest your viewing it in this case, and you most probably are already familiar with it. But if this is not the case, Judy, even the modest Vitamin C in large doses might perhaps help you.
It’s just the opinion of an eager student of all you wise naturalists.
With all good wishes,
Gisela
Gisela
Thanks! I do take plenty of vitamin C – it’s also great for the adrenals. I do appreciate this and all the other lovely suggestions I’m getting.
Hey Judy,
The 3-6-6 breathing may not help. And actually may make things worse … (It often amazes me that most western-based breathing coaches do not have a basic understanding of the breathing process).
3-6-6-1 is better you can even do 3-3-3-1. Once you get used to the rhythm try to increase the 1, i.e. holding without any breath. Most likely when you reach something like 6-6-6-6 or even 6-6-6-10 all issues will be resolved.
But KEY THING is to keep relaxing while breathing (or doing any of the other exercises). Especially connecting with the breathing diaphragm (the muscle) and keep releasing any tensions in it and keep letting go and relaxing, melting, softening. Keep imagining it getting more supple and free.
If you need to reactivate the parasympathetics, you need to get that diaphragm free and working properly. But as this muscle is usually the first to pick up on any stress/threat, it will also take emotional release and release of the muscle memory to work through that restriction/spasm that the diaphragm is stuck in.
And again KEY is K-E-E-P R-E-L-A-X-I-N-G while doing the breathing. Definitely do not do it standing. Try to always sit. Lying down is ok too.
KEEP RELAXING the diaphragm -imagine, feel into it, sense it, connect in any way feels right ….. You will always find in the process that you are disconnected from that muscle. Any time you reconnect – it will feel like you are reconnecting with larger and larger areas with it – there will be a relief in your symptoms. That reconnection is visceral, you’ll know it when it happens but there is no way to describe it here …. Keep allowing the Body to lead you. Once a kind of an internal flow happens, then the actual counts do not matter. All that matters is increasing the range (amplitude) of the breathing muscle and making its movement smooth – though the latter not through effort but through no-effort, i.e. relaxation and softening.
The improvements will come in bursts. It will be like a spasm releases. Or like a jump in the breathing diaphragm.
The pause after you exhale is the most important as that is the only phase of the breathing process in which the breathing muscle rests … So, yeah, how typical that in the west they still recommend a 3 phase breathing and have not woken up to the most important phase … That stuff still annoys me big time ! ……… Though it is during that phase that emotions will surface, so that fits the generally anti-emotions methods preferred in the west.
It is not a bad idea to stretch the front of the body. Very easy initially. Just having a small cushion between the shoulder blades, or a little below at the level of lower end of the rib cage. You can keep increasing the height of that cushion. You can breathe in any way that helps and makes it bearable as this will trigger stuff. You can pant and breathe faster and stronger during the periods when the body is releasing. I’d say start with 5min in these positions and build to 10 min and more.
It is a good idea to consult with a belly-dance teacher. When it comes to female bodies belly-dancers are really the best experts.
And lean forward on those skis 😉 …. Push the knees forward. Feel the whole curve of the turn. Do not rush turning …. I used to be a ski-instructor many years ago 😉
Which reminds me, another good overall exercise can be 1) heels together, 2) pelvis slightly tilted forward – basically brought to neutral as most of us have the pelvises turned backwards, 3) centre of the chest slightly forward and up, 4) chin down, feeling of being lifted through the back of neck and top of head, 5) shoulder blades relaxed and pulled towards each other. And again relaxing into that’ Allowing the skeleton/bones to carry the weight and to relate to gravity. Any detected muscle tension is to released through an ever deepening inner softening and releasing of tension. Dissolving as a concept is useful too. So dissolve any tension (you can dissolve it outwards or inwards, but that’s another huge topic).
Overall allow any spontaneous movements, shakes, tremors that may emerge. Especially any spiralling, twisty movements.
Hope this helps
Vesco
Vesco
The 3-6-6 breathing does seem to be helping! But I’m open to all learning. I’m just not clear what 3-6-6-1 or 3-3-3-1 or 6-6-6-6 or 6-6-6-10 refers to since 3-6-6 is 3 in, 6 hold and 6 out. What do you do with the 4th time you mention?
I’m curious where this is from? as opposed to being Western?
And thanks for the ski tips! I know I’m not very good but I have fun anyway!
Trudy
The fourth number is for holding after exhaling. So holding with empty lungs. And with practice that emptying will become fuller and fuller.
This comes mostly from Buteyko Breathing but over the years I realised that there are other breathing method systems in Russia which would have known and practiced this way for probably thousands of years.
Dr Buteyko was the head of the Breathing section in the Russian Space Programme so there are 40 years of solid research that went into that method.
All that “breathing every hour on the hour” came from the Buteyko experiments.
I am not sure how and why, but any time these methods travel westwards the fourth phase of breathing is soon undermined and eventually forgotten. It seems to be hitting a blind spot with west-based breathing coaches.
Anyway, main point is again, the fourth phase is the only phase during which the main breathing muscle rests. Without properly working with that phase you will get some benefit from the three-phase breathing but won’t go deep towards removing the cause. And actually the benefits of three-phase breathing are exactly because of the positive effect they have on the fourth phase. So why not work on the fourth phase directly ?!
By the way, Kharrazian is an Armenian name, so he also comes from that same larger culture as Buteyko. Most likely all he is doing is verifying through western science the healing methods he already knows have worked for thousands of years, and for commercial reasons is releasing them slowly …. It does not matter if he is first or second or whatever generation. These memories are in his blood.
Another by the way, the Kahunas in Hawaii use a 7-7-7-7 breath. So, yeah, all the people who have the older knowledge know the importance of the fourth phase. (I have heard from somebody who lived there that the word in Hawaian for Chrostiam Missionary and all Christian Priests is No-Breathers. Apparently when all these religious missionaries started arriving there and were claiming their god is better and all that, the local shamans were naturally sceptical. And as breathing is super-important in any shamanic tradition for both healing and connecting with higher powers, the local shamans were astounded that the newcomers were not breathing (were not breathing properly) when they were doing their rituals. So the local shamans concluded that these guys are imposters, or amateurs at best, as they did not seem to know the first thing about connecting with the subtler realms …).
And as I mentioned above, KEEP RELAXING in that fourth phase. This is the most important thing. Even that guy that gave you the 3 phase breath should have emphasised that.
After a while the body naturally will want to extend the 4th phase. That’s where the 6-6-6-10 comes in. Though it may take a while of practice.
And finally when you start working with the 4th phase it is not that important to hold the breath after inhale. You can actually do a 3 phase breath but it will be inhale-exhale-hold … It gives faster results than the inhale-hold-exhale … Again this is based on non-western research which shows that in holding the breath after inhale the body is under stress. But if holding after exhale, the body gets deeper and deeper into relaxation. Plus very soon the parasympathetic nervous system kicks in and people enter very relaxed altered states very quickly … Actually when I teach Meditation this is the fastest shortcut I have for bringing people quickly into deeper meditative states (just don’t tell anybody, as this is a big secret. Actually a friend of mine paid 3,000 euro, which is more than $3,000, to learn that one trick to help him with his anxieties).
There are also more metaphorical, transpersonal psychological reasons for why holding after exhale works. As this is the death phase among the 4 phases of breathing. SO it is the ideal stage for letting go of stuff. If we are trying to let go of a condition, or stiffness, or anything, we need to do it during the let-go phase, rather than the other 3. Though obviously exhale is a let-go phase. It’s just that holding after exhale does it better, deeper, faster.
Enjoy !
Vesco
Thanks for sharing so much! I’m super-intrigued and will be reading further about Buteyko Breathing
Interesting most of what I found (very quick search) seems to only talk about asthma http://www.buteykobreathing.org/media/
Love the part about Christian Priests being called No-Breathers in Hawaii. I have a good friend I’m going to ask to share more about this
Very interesting information Vesco! I’ve had all the same issues as Trudy but also have reflux, postnasal drip, stomach pain, a hiatus hernia, difficulty and diaphragm pain on top of the spasms and coughing. I think they are all related. My problem has been building up for years. I used to love singing in my car (I am crap but that didn’t stop me). But as time went on my throat would hurt so much. My osteopath found trigger points in my diaphragm. It has always been tight and I’ve also had tight throat issues but my symptoms have gone crazy since I had a bad cough in September.
And Trudy, THANKS soo much for sharing this. You’re a godsend. I thought I was going mad and it provokes more anxiety.
I’ve tried to order Gaba but it may be stopped at customs as it’s not allowed in Ireland but I’m starting the exercises anyway.
I hope you are well recovered now Trudy.
And thanks again. You’re a star!! 🙂
Nuala
Thanks for sharing and I wish you much healing. Please keep us posted! I am totally recovered – thanks for asking 🙂
Hi Trudy,
I took your amino acid webinar back in October. I’m so sorry to hear about your voice, cough and throat spasms and all you are going through trying to heal. It is such a wonderful resource for you to share your healing experience on line. I appreciate your vulnerability here and the chance to learn from it. Can you please share the functional medicine doctors or NDs in the bay area you can recommend. Especially in the South Bay (San Jose, Campbell, Los Gatos areas). Thanks much and God bless you on your healing journey.
Shawnie
Can you let me know what kind of support you’re looking for and I’ll recommend someone
Trudy,
I am grateful you are making this information and your exercises so easy to access! I have been learning about Dr. Kharrazian’s intestinal work and specifically motility support via vagus nerve rehab and with your information from Joe Tatta you have provided me with some additional exercises for patients besides gargling. When you interview Joe I would be curious to hear which of the exercises you are doing support general vagal nerve function in it’s entirety(which would then naturally support motility, health parasympathetic response etc.)vs. which exercises may be more specific to relaxation of the throat spasm you are experience (ie local vagal effect?). Perhaps he could describe a profile of symptoms or conditions that these exercises would be most appropriate for?
Thanks again!
Jessie Speirs ND
Naturopathic family physician
Jessie
You are so welcome! I love Dr. Kharrazian’s work and have been re-reading his sections on via vagus nerve rehab in his book “Why Isn’t My Brain Working?”
I’m glad my exercises are giving you more ideas and I’d wait before using them in case I’m doing something wrong. I’m simply sharing what I’m doing. I’ll make sure Joe clarifies things in our interview and critiques what I’m doing.
And thanks for the great questions for Joe: 1) which of the exercises I am doing support general vagal nerve function in it’s entirety(which would then naturally support motility, health parasympathetic response etc.)vs. which exercises may be more specific to relaxation of the throat spasm I am experiencing (ie local vagal effect?). 2) describe a profile of symptoms or conditions that these exercises would be most appropriate for? We’ll be sure to address this.
Hi Dr. Speirs!
Great question!
Anyone who presents with a dominant sympathetic response could benefit from vegas therapy. Since the nerve innervates the heart, lungs, adrenals and gut the most common presentations would be hypertension, arrhythmia’s, IBS, anxiety, chronic pain and adrenal fatigue. Would love to hear how you implement it with your patients and success stories!
Hello! First of all I’m sorry to hear of the difficulty you are working to overcome, but I feel strongly it will soon be something in your past, not your present or future. 🙂
I have my own recent story to share in the hopes it resonates with some of you.
A few months ago I was very overwhelmed with grief after a breakup. I felt the grief mostly in my throat and chest. After a few weeks I felt better in my mind however my body was still very stressed and I alarmingly developed dysphagia (the inability to swallow food). I mean- talk about traumatic! I had no clue what was going on. Doctors did a scope but could not see any physical reason my throat was behaving that way.
After going to an intuitive French Osteopath, he worked on me with subtle body manipulations, but also prescribed Bach Rescue Remedy (which can be bought in any health store). Well! After 2 weeks with this I could eat tiny pieces of whole foods, and after 3 weeks (now) I am eating normally again!!
My very crucial point is that trauma greatly affects our minds which then influences our bodies. My goal right now is to keep working with the Osteopath to help my body recognize and release past little traumas so that I no longer have such an extreme subconscious reaction when life gets a bit rocky. So– in a nutshell; don’t ignore your little traumas; address them with the help of a practitioner or some great books. And run don’t walk to get Bach’s Rescue Remedy— Magic stuff! Wishing everyone a speedy healing. x
Heather
Thanks for sharing your wonderful story of healing – I’m a big fan of osteopathic manipulations and Rescue Remedy! It may well have been that the grief affected your vagus nerve and hence the swallowing and the work you did with this practitioner resolved it. There are many ways to get resolutions for our health challenges and I’m glad you found your solution.
I’m becoming very interested in the vagus nerve recently…I have a condition called POIS, post orgasmic illness syndrome, which is being investigated currently as possibly being caused by low functioning vagus nerve. POIS causes fatigue and depression like symptoms for upto a week after orgasm.
PC
Thanks for sharing and sorry to hear about this. I’m glad to hear vagus nerve issues are being considered. As with any condition, a complete functional workup to find the root cause/s is always the way to go. With POIS it seems autoimmunity, hormone imbalances and neurotransmitter imbalances can be factors.
If you’re the same PC who made the SIBO comment and the fact that GABA helps your anxiety, these are likely clues to finding resolution since SIBO and gut issues can cause nutritional and neurotransmitter deficiencies.
I’d love to know if you’ve tried other amino acids to help with the post orgasm fatigue and depression (tyrosine and tryptophan)?
I’m sharing this link on POIS for other readers https://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/gard/10809/postorgasmic-illness-syndrome/resources/1
Hi Trudy
I am trying gaba source naturals and it seems to make me edgy and irritable. I only took 1/16th of the 500 mg capsule. Are you familiar with this type of reaction? I am just entering the 2nd day of a virus with this cough that sounds similar to yours but I tried the gaba before I got sick.
I have a similar reaction to pain medications. Makes my heart race and I feel like I’m going to jump out of my skin.
Blessings on your recovery.
Becky
Some people do have this reaction to GABA – due to it being too much or because they don’t need it or because of the brand/other ingredients or the form of GABA. You can read how different people have responded to different products here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/gaba-calming-amino-acid-products-results/
Many people currently on benzodiazepines or with recent use may be sensitive to GABA ad other supplements.
Did you do the GABA questionnaire (and have low GABA symptoms?) and review the precautions? You can see more here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/
You are so brave Trudy. I believe anything worth achieving is worth fighting for. Our world is such a broken place. I don’t care about how those exercises come across to people – you are a very loveable person. Your work deserves more recognition. Wishing you love, healing and a speedy recovery. Thank you for your contribution to this planet, it needs more people like YOU. Namaste
Tara
Aw thanks for those lovely kind and caring words!
Thanks so much for posting this!! I have had the same problem since catching a cold (only lasted for a day) after a Thanksgiving trip. I had thought it was connected with histamines, but antihistamines haven’t helped much. I had tried gargling with salt or essential oils, and used a neti pot thinking it was post nasal drip. About the only thing that has helped is aspirin (relief lasts for about four hours), and also breathing in through my nose and blowing out quickly through my mouth. I teach classes two days a week, so this problem with my throat muscles getting tighter and tighter has been a real issue for me. I will get some GABA today and see how it works! Thank you again for posting this and sending it out in your newsletter!
Interesting Debbie – please let us know what you discover
Oh my goodness, what a joy to find this post!!! I’ve had a chronic cough for five years, since getting out of the hospital with pneumonia (bacterial caught in a 3rd world country). I was in a coma for 4 days, with a respirator for 10, 3 weeks total in the hospital. I’m all good now except the chronic cough.
I was a singer but the voice is a wreck. I had granulomas on my cords right after the hospital but have not looked since then. The cough is 99% gone now — about 6 months ago, a friend recommended a book called The Chronic Cough Enigma and that was the first time I’d heard of the vagas nerve. I cried reading that book… I had no clue what was going on for all those years and could not find any hints.
The two most effective things I’ve done for the cough since reading the book is cayenne pepper — really stops the cough cold 🙂 I put it in everything I drink. I think it must have tricked the vagas nerve… It’s like it was caught in a feedback loop.
And I stopped eating 4 hours before bed so no silent reflux during the night. Those two things made a huge difference in the coughing and in my voice. I can talk without coughing and even sing with John Prine now, lol. I used to be a soprano but I think those days are over.
I have not read all the post, just couldn’t wait to thank you. I’m a blogger and sometimes I get a comment where someone shares what a difference the post made to them. I wanted you to know you did that for me.
Off to read the last of the article and all the comments. Thank you.
As you well know, there are many causes and often many solutions. Glad you found yours. Sharing it here may help someone else so thanks for sharing Sally
Wow! This has really got everyone talking.
I was at my Osteopath’s last week and walked in sounding very wheezy. I have weaned myself of asthma meds because I’m pretty sure that it’s really an anxiety symptom. (The Pyroluria is under control with P5P/Zinc plus I have done a pile of other functional med stuff so I am pretty sorted.) Except that twice now, once at Christmas and now again I have this very flemy cough / wheeze that I am stuggling to manage. I suspect some SIBO involvement (taking stuff for that). I am on Fish oil /Mg /D3 for the asthma symptoms but have had to go back to taking some Symicort at night for the wheeze / chest restriction. Comes on especially at night. I have found that if I try to meditate and concentrate just on breathing things will calm down.
In talking to my osteo he was talking about the Vagas nerve / Heart connection with the heart needing to feel safe so as not to set off the sympathetic nervous system. During my treatment we did manage to reduce anxiety and my breathing calmed down.
So this seems to be connected / similar to your experience – minus the plane turbulance – but my cough is not always dry. I am looking forward to your interview with Joe. Cripes, just writing this starts me coughing. Looks like this is another layer of the onion to work through.
Cheers Paula
Glad this was helpful – keep us updated on what you find and how you do
Hi Trudy,
I anxiously awaiting updates and a ETA when you will interview Joe Tatta. Thanks so much for being so willing to share and teach. You are an inspiration.
Patty
I am so grateful for this information! In November after a serious flu that affected my neck and throat, I have had persistent throat pain and spasm which has limited my ability to talk and sing. I began vocal therapy with a speech pathologist and physio and we discussed the vagus nerve. I have a previous vagus nerve injury from an electrical injury. In that case the lower part of the nerve was affected and that healed with physiotherapy and acupuncture. I also improved my ability to tell right from left using the Recognise app from Noigroup.com
As a singer songwriter this has been very challenging. I have even developed a head tremor in the last month that seems tied to the vocal exercises I am doing. For the first time I feel hope. The vocal exercises I have been doing are too much for me and the simpler exercises advocated here are much better. I have not yet tried the gaba but I did take gabapentin for a short while with my other injury. It was effective but I did not like the side effect.
I am investigating supplements now…is there a combination that includes B6 ? What would you recommend.
I also would like to encourage you… Your humming is much better! Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge
WOnder if low in acetylcholine. Asked on “the perfect diet”
where he suggests egg yolks but get nausea from them try vinegar (acetic acid) . P. Jaminet.
When I try GABA, usually get even more anxiety, so must have plenty
Lynn
Low acetylcholine is often a factor with vagus nerve issues. If you have physical anxiety and GABA makes your more anxious it may be too much GABA. I start my clients on 125mg and sometimes less.
Trudy!
I just saw your response to my vagus nerve post, over on the GABA post, where I had put it, having lost this stream! So now I am putting it here!
Glad to hear that you are better by now.
Still sending love and thanks for all you do!
Xxx, Fran
Fran Reply:
March 27th, 2016 at 10:18 am
Dear Trudy,
I lost the thread about your Vagus nerve injury, so am writing back here. My heart goes out to you and I am sending love. You are surrounded with wonderful healers, so I am sure you will get good support. i found/find with serious nerve injury, from a deeply frightening experience, that taking time for deep nurturing comfort helps clear the way for the other methods to work. You give so much to so many, i hope you feel our love coming back to you and in a way that comforts and soothes.
xxxooo, Fran
–
Aw thanks Fran – as you can see I am now completely healed and back to normal but I love getting messages like this! xxoo
What a fantastic sharing of resources this blog is ! Thank you.
I wonder if a problem where the vocal cords do not come to gether for long and move away, leading to voice problems is due to vagus nerve anamoly?
If anybody has encountered that, please share.
How often do you do the breathing exercises, and how many repetitions do you do(or “DID you do”, rather, as it seems like you’ve stopped needing to do them for now)? I can’t figure out if you are doing them every hour right before you do the humming or of they’re separate from that. Any help would be appreciated, as I want to give this method a try for a few weeks.
Thank you!
It was every hour
And how many repetitions of the breathing exercise did you do every hour? I’m just doing 4 now.
i’m still interested in how many repetitions you did, every hour, for the breathing exercise. also, do you have to hum loudly or is any kind of humming okay?
It was humming aloud and thinking of something special
are you not allowed to tell me how many repetitions of the breathing exercise you did each hour? i can understand if it’s a proprietary technique that your doctor doesnt’t want you to share, but otherwise, I don’t understand why you won’t respond to the question.
Not a problem to share – I did 3
thanks a lot!
Hi this is very interesting. I just wanted to share that Barral Visceral Manipulation therapists that have done the cranial nerve course are trained to to do gentle specific vagal nerve releases and multiple sites. One of which is just lateral and inferior to the hyoid bone. You may have tensed your neck during the trauma and are stil carrying tension here at the front of the neck and hyoid which is affecting the vagus nerve. You can find a practitioner at http://www.barralinstitute.com/therapist/index.php Beat of luck with your healing x
Dear Trudy,
I am just learning of your horrific ordeal and am relieved to know you are greatly improved. Thank you as always for sharing your experiences and wisdom — we all learn so much from you and from those who join in with comments and suggestions.
In addition to all the effects on your body and mind coming from fearing for your life, I wonder if you also suffered injury to muscles and nerves from the physical effects of severe turbulence. No doubt such severe up and down jostling could certainly leave one with muscle injury, nerve pressure and some degree of misalignment. The following treatments could be helpful in such a case: neck exercises, throat and floor of mouth exercises, specific yoga postures, chiropractic adjustment and acupuncture. Sorry I am late in joining in. Wishing you all the best in your healing!
I really appreciate you sharing this story and the exercises. I have a friend with a mysterious cough who I am sharing this with.
Also, I have been dealing with this mysterious chest and throat heaviness & constriction for the past several months. It seems to be very clearly stress related (both stress from a heavy metal detox and M/E stress) and instinctively tried GABA & that same parasympathetic oil blend and found it helpful. (Acupuncture & herbs have also been helpful but don’t want to have to keep doing that forever). It’s not the same as a cough, but I can’t help but wonder if this has a similar root cause.
I will add in the breathing and humming exercises now!
Erin
Thanks for sharing how GABA and the oil blend has helped you with this – I wish you and your friend continued healing. Please keep us posted on how you both improve
This is incredibly interesting to me as I just heard you talk
About your vagus nerve issue on a better belly summit
. I am a singer and I have had times where my voice just went
Out on me for 4-5 days. This has always happened after i was
In an excited state . I never understood why this happened and would just have to not talk for a few days although my throat did not hurt
But I would sometimes have a slight cough . Recently I have discovered
That I may be pyrolauria and starting thinking maybe it was related but now
Maybe it has to do with my vagus nerve, as it all seems to be caused by a stressor- in my case being in an excited state. Anyways it’s pretty fascinating to me and I am determined to get to the root cause of
All these issues in having. I’m wondering if I should try the humming
Excersizes now or the next time I have a vocal hoarseness incident ?
Kelly
It’s definately worth investigating if the vagus nerve is playing a role, plus I’d look at pyroluria and the low GABA questionnaire and consider a trial of GABA
I have had some slightly different experiences with the Vagus nerve.
I have often woken up at night panting hard (likely related to parasites). On occasion the panting has been accompanied by severe clenching (lithium helps).
I too see the the vagus nerve (and panting) as related to sympathetic stimulation. What is reliably helpful for slowing down the panting is something from yoga tradition: to lengthen the back of one’s neck. It is my understanding that a stress response is embodied in a chin thrust forward. To counter that by lengthening the back of the neck makes a remarkable difference. The breathing changes easily and dramatically, and it becomes impossible to clench.
I hope this might be a helpful tool for others!!
Judith Ames
Certified Wellness Coach
Nutritional Therapy Practitioner
Mental Health Nutrition Coach
Hi Trudy, thanks so much for this helpful post! Question: when you had a setback and had to stop the gargling for awhile, what were your symptoms? How can you tell if you’re moving too quickly and should dial back for a bit?
Thanks very much!
Jane
My breathing and cough and voice issues got worse right away.
Do you happen to know if this type of rehab works for all types of vagus nerve damage or just when the vagus nerve is affecting the throat? For instance, I’ve read that vagus nerve issues can cause anxiety and panic attacks. Do you think these exercises could benefit a case like that?
Lia
Yes these exercises were vagus nerve rehab in general. It just happened that my throat and voice were affected
Hi Trudy,
I came across your story and couldn’t help but wonder if perhaps your intervention may very well be beneficial for me.
In the second year of working on my PhD in nutrition and exercise physiology I caught the flu after what I consider to be the most difficult and stressful year I have ever experienced in my life.
The flu lasted longer than usual because I believe that my immune system was definitely suppressed, but after it subsided, I started clearing my throat, coughing, and my voice was hoarse and it hurt to speak. I went from doctor to doctor, specialist to specialist, and even had procedures to rule out GERD. My fiancé and I suspected it was the vagal nerve, but nobody would take the suggestion seriously
FINALLY, a year and 6 months later, I was able to see a otolaryngologist who put a strobe light down my throat and discovered that one of my vocal chords is partially paralyzed. I refuse to believe and entertain the idea that it is not repairable. I have been in voice therapy, and physical therapy for about 2 months now, but have not heard of the use of GABA nor your other key nutrients.
It would be very interesting to hear your comments. My final oral defense is coming up and I would love to heal this damage and give the best presentation of my life. I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Richard
Richard
I don’t have expertise in this and simply shared what I experienced and some of the research. If you were a client I would pursue this as a possible factor. I’d also look into bigger immune system issues as I’ve since heard of viral connections to vagus nerve issues. Here are a few: shingles of the larnyx https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25873549; herpes zoster https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24417173;
Thank you for taking your time to respond to my inquiry and for the two references.
Hi Trudy, My good friend Joan shared this thread with me. I appreciate all the work you do, thank you!!
I have experienced a nagging cough for > 10 years, such that when it occurs people are very concerned. I describe the cough as an intermittent paroxysmal spasmodic cough that happens every 2-3 hours I am awake, lasts 30-90 seconds, expectorating a foaming white sputum at the end of the coughing spell. My cough does not worsen during the day, like you described yours late at night. I do not cough at night while sleeping , however, it begins upon awakening. The cough is fierce, severe and causes incontinence. Have doctored with four pulmonologists, an ENT, and a GI doc over the years, medicated with no relief. Lung scans and x-rays normal. Pulm function tests results lead Pulm docs to diagnose asthma, however, I do not respond to inhalers and do not feel I have asthma. Recently saw a voice specialist who wanted to place me on Gabapentin, I was unwilling.
I am willing to try the exercises (already started after watching the video series) hourly while awake that you shared on your videos (thank you for the specifics).
Questions: I am on Lexapro 10 mg. Can I use the GABA and GPC and Acetyl L-Carn? You mentioned 500 mg of GABA, how often during the day do you recommend using? Shall I simply use the doses recommended doses on the containers of the GPC (you recommended in the morning)and Acetyl L-Carn (recommended in early afternoon) and see how is dry mouth and constipation arise? Also how do you recommend using the Parasympathetic essential oil? And finally, can you recommend a Functional Medicine Doctor in the Chicagoland area (I live in a sw suburb).
Look forward to your reply.
Margaret
It’s good to hear you’ve had all the other tests done but I’m afraid I can’t consult via the blog. I can share that GABA is fine to use with an SSRI like Lexapro and I used the GABA as needed. Just so you know, 500mg is typically a high amount – I start with 125mg with clients who have anxiety and we go up from there. I honestly don’t know enough about using GPC and Acetyl L-Carnitine for my issue to be able to advise you. Here is the info on the essential oil https://vibrantblueoils.com/product/parasympathetic-essential-oil/
Thank you for your response Trudy.
Also, in recent months I have experienced dyspnea in addition to the cough upon hiking and walking, which is disconcerting, as I enjoy both of those activities, and continue to do them in spite of the dyspnea.
My husband has been having episodes of vasovagal syncope. Have you heard of this? He cut himself and needed assistance as he went through his thumbnail, and once he did, his heart rate started to slow and his blood pressure plummeted. He felt very woozy and wiped afterwards. This has happened after he donated blood (he’s not allowed to anymore) because he fell when it started, and he cut his chin and broke teeth in his fall. From what I understand, this happens from an overly excited vagus nerve. I’d love your thoughts.
Heather
I’m sorry to hear about his fall. I don’t know much about vasovagal syncope (https://dysautonomiaconnection.org/about-dysautonomia/what-is-ncs/) but as with any condition having a full functional medicine workup is the best approach.
Hi Trudy
I stumbled across this site recently and find quite a lot of interesting material.
I feel like I have exhausted all my resources and figured to see if anybody has any suggestions on here. Different strategies perhaps. My docs only solution is SSRI’s.
I have developed a phobia for traveling. Going too far. Its like a control thing if I cant get out I panic. Initially I thought it was just me but now Im confused as to why sometimes I have minimal issues going places I have so much peace and then few months later my panic is very extreme I find myself running off the airplane embarrassing myself. Every time I make progress to build some confidence events like this take me several steps back. Now I panic using a ctrain for 10 mins. This is getting ridiculous.
Now also some new symptoms are arising. In the evenings Im getting very tight throat feeling. Several times a week and sometimes none. At work when Im talking to co workers I get this very intense chest tightness and stomach anxiety almost as my breathing changes…comes to a hault. As soon as I get away things improve immediately. I like to socialize so not sure why the fake symptoms of social anxiety or whatever you call this.
Bit about me. I exercise regularly, Im young, fit, eat well and no stress in my life. I have severe carb cravings. After dinner all I want is treats and crave sugar. Supplementation has eased my anxiety but feel as though the panic may be worse.
My doc will not offer neurotransmitter testing. He does not offer much at all except convincing to stop any supplements. Any help would be appreciated. Any recommendation of someone who can help. I will take any advice. Thank you.
Trudy, did you ingest the parasympathetic EO? How did you apply it and how often?
I followed the directions to “Apply on the vagal nerve (behind ears on jaw bone) before meals”
Hi Trudy,
Thank you so much for posting this. Are there any non-medication remedies to this? I am not much of a pill/syrup person and am allergic to even the so-called harmless ones like Benadryl and aspirin.
Ada
This is a non-medication approach. And I don’t even consider Benadryl and aspirin to be harmless.
Hello Trudy, I found this article while I was searching for some answers to my periodic coughing problems that have plagued me for years. Mine typically occur following an upper respiratory infection, but tend to last for weeks, if not months, long past the infection has gone. No cough medicine, nor doctor, has been able to pinpoint just what causes these episodes, and I have been dealing with this problem for many years. I usually have a couple episodes throughout a year’s time.
In 2017, I went to an ENT who indicated it was a neurological response to the infection and prescribed Montelukast as a remedy to try at the onset of a cold or sinus infection. That seemed to work as I did not have any more episodes for over a year. I was thrilled that I finally had an answer and a solution to my coughing problem.
At least until now! I recently had a sinus infection and am back to coughing, particularly when I talk. or laugh. It worsens at night and it typically comes in the form of spasms and I simply cannot control the coughing. I am a teacher, so this becomes fairly debilitating throughout the day.
Your description of your spasms are very similar to mine, and I can feel my throat tightening as I begin to speak. As a woman in my early 60s, it also causes other inconveniences such as stress induced incontinence.
I want to try your suggestions. I have heard of GABA and will get some tomorrow. Do you take it daily, or just use it as you demonstrated in your video?
How do you use the Parasympathetic essential oil? I have never used essential oils so I am not sure how it is administered. I am unfamiliar with the other two nutrients. Are they available over the counter, or by prescription?
I would appreciate any guidance you could offer. I am almost at the point of desperation in trying to find a cause and a solution for this nagging cough. I am so grateful to you for sharing your story. I will happily hum “Happy Birthday” with fond thoughts of you. God Bless You!
Kris
I’m sorry to hear this! I only used GABA while I was in the midst of the throat spasms. Since this was a chronic situation I used it daily and also used more when I was doing interviews on summits/podcasts. When someone is starting out I recommend doing one thing at a time – and especially when essential oils and the other nutrients are also new. Keeping it simple with the GABA and vagus nerve exercises/humming is enough for most folks.
Thank you. I will give the GABA and exercises a try. I’ll let you know if I see any improvement.
I have had a chronic cough for many years, decades. I got it after a virus long ago. I am very Excited to think maybe there is a way to rehab. I have tried everything. How can one be tested for Arnold’s Nerve Cough Reflex? I think that might be what I have. I cough unexpectedly all the time, and it does interfere with my life. I’d like to consult with someone who can guide me through curing. Any suggestions on possible person? Thank you so much! Chris
Chris after an extensive visit with a new allergist in 2016 he is the one who diagnosed me with Arnold nerve cough syndrome and one major indication is if you clean your ears with a cotton swab, does that cause you to cough. My husband made the observation and I shared it with the doctor. That is one of the indicators. I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I have been dealing with this for over 20 years and was at the desperate point as well. Even Stanford Hospital couldn’t help. I know there must be 1000s if people suffering with this chronic cough. The belbuca film helped me for 2 years until I got this recent virus now I need to get it calmed down. I am still taking it but will try adding the GABA and humming. I was on
Montalucast but it did nothing for me.
I was diagnosed with Arnold Nerve Cough Syndrome 2 years ago after going undiagnosed for almost 20 years. The cough started after I contracted a respiratory infection, treated with major antibiotics then it came back again. I would get the cough a couple times a year and the cough lasted for weeks, went away and come back again. This went on for years while I was still working. I retired in 2004 and was coughing the month I retired. It lasted for weeks but would go away. I was treated with so many asthma medications over the years to no avail, because I didn’t have asthma. Then the cough stayed all the time. My quality of life was declining, I was so depressed and my dear husband had to put up with me. Once I was diagnosed in 2016 I tried the protocol of Gabapentin working up to 1800 mg a day. This didn’t work for me, it only made me a zombie. By happenstance I was referred to a internal medicine doctor in San Francisco who put me on 75mc 2 times a day of belbuca or bupronepheren. Within a couple of days my cough was gone untilFeb 2019 when I caught a virus and I have been coughing every since. I am still taking my belbuca and waiting for this virus inflicted cough to go away so I can get back to normal. I share this in the hopes someone else could be helped. I was very interested to see in this exchange information about a hiatal hernia possibly pressing on the vagus nerve. That may be causing the cough as I also have a hernia. I am wondering if there was a repair of the hernia and if so did it help?
Donna
I don’t have a hernia so can’t talk to this aspect. It was GABA and the vagus nerve exercises that helped me recover. Thanks for sharing your story and wishing you well on your healing journey
I have another thought on something that could potentially be helpful to you. When my husband was a young man he started getting all sorts of weird symptoms. He saw doctors but they could never find anything wrong with him. Symptoms ranged from joint and muscle pain, vision issues, swelling, urinary problems, brain fog and esophagus spasms. To make a long story short his health got really bad about seven years ago and he began having more cognitive function problems and memory loss and he was 53. Eventually he was diagnosed with Lyme disease and he went through 2.5 years of antibiotic treatment. Some things got better but he still had the memory issues and a few things. Treatment seemed to have stalled and he was incredibly unhappy. His Lyme doctor mentioned DNRS. She said several of her patients got their lives back. Basically it’s limbic system brain retraining. Something like lyme, trauma does damage to the brain affecting the fight or flight response. DNRS isn’t the only neural retraining program. There is Gupta, and rewire and others. Something to think about and look into.
My psychologist recommended me to have a look at your book “the anti-anxiety food solution”, but looking for more info about you I ended up here. I can say that you brought some light to my problem. I’m currently dealing with almost exactly the same symptoms that you had ( funny thing it also started in a plane! traveling from California to London )but I was having a course of antidepressant medications at that time that were showing side effects, amitriptyline and Cipralex ( both at the same time), they damaged the nerves of my throat and caused me a lot of breathing problem that I suffered for months, the worst part went away but I’m still dealing with spams and dry throat and insomnia, not sure if everything could be related to some GABA imbalance too. I will practice these exercises but I’m a bit scared to take the Gaba etc by my own, who can I contact in the UK who can help me with it?
Hi Maria your question came to me but I am looking for solutions. I suggest you look at one of Trudy’s blogs and reply directly to her. I wish you the best.
Maria
I don’t know of someone in the UK who can help but my book has an en tire chapter on the amino acids that may be of help. There is also a wealth of information here on the blog. And I do work via phone. You ca sign up for the waiting list here https://www.everywomanover29.com/services.html
Thanks for replying.
I’m reading your book ” the antianxiety food Solution” but I didn’t reach that point yet. I will continue reading here in the blog, and definitely gonna book an appointment.
Gabapentin is probably toxic, even though it is close analog. Decent study suggests it prevent nerve regeneration in brain. I took gabapentin, for nerve pain, daily for about a year and on and off longer. My condition got significantly worse during that time. Gabapentin is also the only substance I’ve experienced that made me “retarded,” like stereotype how alcohol makes many people (but not me) “stupid.” Gabapentin made me unable to do basic algebra, talk very basic etc… I am better now. Also see so many old high school friends who were addicted to oxy or binge drinking, so many of them (“sober” of course) have now been taking gabapentin daily for years.
Love the rest of your article!
CG
GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid) is an amino acid and is not the same as the drug called gabapentin which does have many possible side-effects, including memory loss and lack of concentration. You can see them all here https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323681.php
That’s right. Just wanted a disclaimer for anyone considering Gabapentin as a quick fix for vagus nerve dysfunction. Even though it’s a close analog, it is not safe long term.
And for the record, Gabapentin also has no affinity for gaba or benzo receptors. It’s indirect action on gaba comes from its calcium channel interactions.
Ch
Yes, excellent point – thanks!
Hello all. I’ve been struggling with a condition diagnosed as Spasmodic Dysphonia since 2015. https://www.dysphonia.org/ The information in this thread is very interesting and I am wondering (hopeful) if any of the protocols with GABA and the like would help me. Currently the only effective treatment for this disorder is receiving botox shots directly into my vocal chords ~every 17 weeks or so. Is anyone else familiar with or had success in relieving this condition? Any suggestions? Many thanks in advance!
Cheryl
I would consider a trial of GABA and discuss with your doctor. In this paper, Xyrem was used resolved symptoms. The authors state “This may be due to the ability of sodium oxybate [Xyrem] to mediate gamma-aminobutic acid (GABA)-B receptor activation and metabolize into GABA, the levels of which are known to be deficient in patients with dystonia. It has been suggested that GABA-ergic deficiencies in dystonia may contribute to the loss of inhibition and thus to the generation of dystonic movements” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3863985/
And also work on vagus nerve activation per this article and Dr. Navaz Habib’s interview https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/vagus-nerve-activation-to-reduce-anxiety-with-dr-navaz-habib-the-anxiety-summit-5/
Thank you so much! I will give it a try!
Hi,
What about the vagus nerve homeopathic remedy “Vagus nervinum 4CH” by Unda/Seroyal?
Thanks
Michael
I’m not familiar with this product. Have you used it with success?
Haven’t tried it yet. I will report back if I do and let you know how it goes.
Does vagus support like this help with more than just heart related things like anxiety, parasympathetic tone etc?
Where to find the parasympathetic oil?
Or is there a ration to respect so I can do on my own?
Dr D
Dr. D
This one was made by Vibrant Blue Oils and contains lime and clove essential oil
Would GABAbe contraindicated for someone who has just finished weaning themselves off of a benzo? I’ve heard many stories about the fact that those who have used benzos for years shouldn’t supplement with GABA because it’s simply replacing the drug with another artificial form and won’t give our bodies the chance to rehab and start creating GABA on their own. But reading your story makes me wonder if several of the issues I’m currently experiencing are due to low GABA (I was on Ativan for many years for frequent and debilitating panic attacks and weaned myself off over the course of three years). I’m working on gut rehab right now but am considering adding GABA as I feel it may be a missing link. Do you have any resources or information about GABA and benzo withdrawal? Thank you! ☺️
Heather
I have many clients use GABA while on benzos and during tapering and find benefits. Some don’t but it’s worth a trial. There are no studies that indicate it’s contraindicated. I also have all my clients get nutritionally stable BEFORE they work with their doctor on tapering – this means no gluten/sugar/caffeine, real whole food, quality animal protein, healthy fats, good gut and adrenal health, supporting their vagus nerve, as well as addressing possible low GABA and low serotonin etc
I have a heart condition known as Left Bundle Branch Block (LBBB) which was noticed when I went for an ECG about 15 years back. I am 67 years old and does yoga regularly including headstand for 15 to 20 minutes at a stretch. Let me know how serious is this LBBB condition of heart and do I need to take any specific precaution during my daily life activities?
K.S.
This is something best discussed with your physician.
Hello. For about 8 years now I’ve suffered from a hoarse voice, constricted throat/larynx, and chronic dryness. This has had an incredibly negative impact on my activities of daily life, particularly because I sing and speak to patients in hospice for my job. I was finally diagnosed with Sjogren’s syndrome, but none of the conventional treatments have helped my voice. My symptoms ebb and flow, but I’ve noticed that dryness doesn’t always correlate with my hoarse voice. My otolaryngologist has confirmed that even when I’m not experiencing dryness in my vocal cords, my muscles are very tense in my esophagus. I recently listened to some of your talks on the recent Anxiety Summit. I really want to trial Gaba – to see if it can help relax some of the muscles in my throat when I’m having difficulty speaking/singing. Do you have any instructions on your website that could help guide me in trialing Gaba? What brand / dose / frequency would you recommend? How quickly would I expect to see results if indeed the Gaba could help my condition? Thank you and God bless you!
Just buy some pure powder on Amazon from a well rated vendor/brand. Put 500mg in a glass of water and slowly sip it. Try working up to 2-8g/day over a few doses. GABA is just an amino acid, it is nothing fancy or consequential.
I would honestly try Low Dose Naltrexone, try Buhner herbs for various infections to see how you react and Andy Cutler Chelation (or at least an HTMA read by someone who understands deranged mineral transport).
Cg
Thanks for contributing to the discussion. I recommend professional grade supplements to purchasing on Amazon and have my clients start really low with 125mg. 500mg is typically too high for most folks and can cause flushing or dizziness. Using it sublingually is best or in water as you suggest.
Eric
I love that you sing and speak to patients in hospice – what a gift you have! I start my clients on 125mg and go up from there. I used 500mg when it happened to me but I already knew how much I could tolerate. If it’s going to work and it’s the right amount I would expect to see results immediately (as you see in the my videos). I have many blog posts that discuss GABA – please do a search. The products can be found on the supps blog https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/
If you feel like you need more guidance (which is what I recommend), please read the amino acid chapter in my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution”, and/or work with someone and/or do my online group GABA quickstart program.
Please let us know how it goes.
Thanks for tuning in to the Anxiety Summit! You likely heard that vagus nerve exercises may also very likely to help so don’t overlook these. I also recently came across some research on very low vitamin D and throat spasms so I’d recommend a full functional medicine workup to check this and everything else.