Have you been in a situation where tryptophan doesn’t work, then it does work, and then sometimes it doesn’t work as expected? There is a reasonable explanation as to why it may not work initially – too much or too little was used. The variable results and the need to switch between lower and higher doses on an ongoing basis can happen but it’s not very pronounced unless there is a specific reason. In this blog I cover some of these reasons – hormone shifts, dietary factors and parasites/other digestive issues.
I’m writing this blog in response to a question that was posted on one of my speaker pages on the Anxiety Summit: Gut-Brain Axis. This is the actual question:
I tried to use tryptophan the first time (whole capsule) and got really high. Some time later I tried again, but used 1/4 of a capsule and had a good result. A few weeks later 1/4 of the capsule didn’t work at night. So I went up to half a capsule. And that’s where I am now. But some nights (very rare) I can only get good results from a whole capsule. I use it along with the same amount of GABA. Is that a normal reaction for tryptophan?
I don’t know what brand of tryptophan she was using but assume 500mg was her starting dose and she now shifts between 125 mg (¼ capsule) and 250 mg (½ capsule) with variable results.
It’s not unusual for someone to not feel great on 500 mg if that dose is too much for their unique needs. She did the right thing by lowering her dose. It’s also reasonable that someone may find 500 mg as an initial dose isn’t enough to reduce symptoms.
The variable results and the need to switch between 125 mg and 250 mg can happen but it’s not very pronounced unless there is a specific reason. Some of these reasons include hormone shifts, dietary factors, parasites/other digestive issues, thyroid issues, low lithium, product quality and environmental factors. More on all this below.
Hormone shifts/more serotonin is needed in the luteal phase
I have my clients track when the variability happens, with female clients documenting their cycles. Some women need more serotonin support in the luteal phase i.e. after ovulation and right up to before their periods. Some may even need additional tryptophan for the first few days of their periods too.
Write about tryptophan working well in the luteal phase in this blog – Tryptophan for PMS: premenstrual dysphoria, mood swings, tension, and irritability
In a study published in 1999, A placebo-controlled clinical trial of L-tryptophan in premenstrual dysphoria, tryptophan was found to reduce symptoms of PMS when used in the luteal phase or second half of the cycle (i.e. after ovulation):
37 patients with premenstrual dysphoric disorder were treated with L-tryptophan 6 g per day, and 34 were given placebo. The treatments were administered under double-blind conditions for 17 days, from the time of ovulation to the third day of menstruation, during three consecutive menstrual cycles.
They looked at dysphoria, which is defined as a state of unease or generalized dissatisfaction with life, plus mood swings, tension (and anxiety), and irritability and they found a 34.5% reduction of symptoms with tryptophan compared to 10.4% with placebo.
The paper concludes: “that these results suggest that increasing serotonin synthesis during the late luteal phase of the menstrual cycle has a beneficial effect in patients with premenstrual dysphoric disorder.”
It’s a small study but the results are powerful and it’s something I see clinically with my clients. The one big difference is that I typically have clients using tryptophan throughout the month.
But if you are seeing tryptophan work and then not work at similar times each month this is something to consider and track. And then if need be, increase and decrease tryptophan accordingly (and track again).
Dietary factors – collagen, gluten, sugar, wine and coffee
There are other factors to consider too and dietary impacts is one. For example, collagen leads to a higher need for tryptophan in susceptible individuals (due to it’s serotonin-lowering effects – I blog about this here)
Another dietary factor is accidental gluten exposure in susceptible individuals or a newly discovered gluten issue
High sugar intake, alcohol and/or caffeine consumption may also be a factor – contributing to added stress for the adrenals and depletions in zinc and the B vitamins. This can contribute to lowered serotonin and a need for a higher dose of tryptophan.
Now imagine if it’s just before her period and she adds collagen to her diet and she also eats out and gets zapped by gluten. Triple whammy for this woman!
And she goes to a party and happens to indulge in cocktails or wine, and then goes on a binge at the dessert table, followed by a few cups of coffee (or even one dessert and one cup of coffee).
A food-mood log really helps you figure things out. And then, if need be, increase and decrease tryptophan accordingly. And track again and address the dietary issues.
Parasites and other gut issues
If she has a very pronounced shift in symptoms for 4-5 days around a full moon each month – more severe insomnia, more anxious, more depressed – I would want to check for parasites.
I would also want to check for other digestion issues like dysbiosis, SIBO (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth), candida and liver health as they may all be factors. With SIBO and candida, dietary slip-ups may make symptoms worse right after the slip-up, for example increased bloating making sleep and anxiety worse.
Using tryptophan sublingually/opened on the tongue may bypass some of the digestive/liver issues until they are resolved.
As mentioned above, if need be, increase and decrease tryptophan accordingly. And track again and address the underlying issues.
Other factors to rule out – thyroid, lithium, environmental factors and the product
Two other underlying root causes we always want to rule out when we see variable results using tryptophan (and any of the amino acids) are Hashimoto’s thyroiditis (because we can have variable thyroid results – sometimes hypo/low and sometimes hyper/high) and low levels of lithium (because this can affect the results we see with all the amino acids).
And we always check environmental factors like mold, EMFs and outside stresses. And look for infections like Lyme disease or EBV. If the basics are not unearthing the solution we continue to dig deeper and do a full functional medicine workup. And adjust the tryptophan as needed.
And finally the quality of the product is key. I find Lidtke Tryptophan to be better than many other brands. I’ve also had many clients switch to Lidtke tryptophan and see better results and often need a lower dose.
Resources if you are new to using tryptophan and the amino acids as supplements
If you are new to using the amino acids tryptophan/5-HTP and the other amino acids as supplements, here is the Amino Acids Mood Questionnaire from The Antianxiety Food Solution (you can see the low serotonin symptoms here) and a brief overview here, Anxiety and targeted individual amino acid supplements: a summary.
If you suspect low serotonin or low levels of any of the neurotransmitters and do not yet have my book, The Antianxiety Food Solution – How the Foods You Eat Can Help You Calm Your Anxious Mind, Improve Your Mood, and End Cravings, I highly recommend getting it and reading it before jumping in and using amino acids so you are knowledgeable. And be sure to share it with the team you or your loved one is working with.
The book doesn’t include product names (per the publisher’s request) so this blog, The Antianxiety Food Solution Amino Acid and Pyroluria Supplements, lists the amino acid products that I use with my individual clients and those in my group programs.
I always appreciate good questions like this and hope this feedback has helped her and you too if you’ve experienced something like this (or if you do in the future). In case you’re wondering, this question was posted after someone tuned into my interview, “GABA & Tryptophan: Gut-Anxiety Connections” on the Anxiety Summit 5: Gut-Brain Axis.
Have you had a variable response to tryptophan (or 5-HTP) and can you relate to any of this?
What did you figure out to be the reason?
Feel free to ask your questions here too.
Hello, I have watched your videos.
Situation: GABA doesn’t work. Causes excitement, reslessness. Give me a recipe for sleep please.
Janet
I’m afraid there is no simple recipe for sleep. It’s a matter of finding your individual underlying factors and addressing them.
Can you please share how much GABA causes excitement and restlessness? And which product you used and how much? And which low GABA symptoms you have?
I typically see GABA causing restlessness when too much GABA is used. I start clients with 125mg and go up from there. I’ve often seen the restlessness and agitation happen with 500mg and 750mg (dosages that are common in many GABA products).
With sleep issues we also look into and then address a whole host of other possible root causes: low serotonin, hormone imbalances, parasites, diet (caffeine/sugar/gluten/low blood sugar), high cortisol, EMFs, toxins and infections.
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
I have used Gaba a lot during the last two years for anxiety and insomnia, sometimes helps sometimes doesn’t but usually more with anxiety so I too need help with sleep. Have just started trying tryptophan which I think has helped with the worrying and ruminations I have but didn’t see anything in your book about using it along with Gaba. I have tried cognitive therapy and acupuncture for my insomnia besides supplements and herbal teas etc but no luck. I think my doctor is out of ideas! Any suggestions, I’ll try anything, almost!
Hi Diane, I’m just a Trudy fan and was reading the blog when I saw your comment. I take GABA under the tongue leading up to bedtime. (And sometimes at other times I feel anxious.) I also take tryptophan. I take some leading up to bedtime and an additional pill later at night. I’m finding the balance. I also take magnesium threonate. I’m sure Trudy can add her wisdom here. I have Lyme, so I’m told I need more magnesium than the average person. Specifically magnesium threonate also might be one thing to try. I’ve taken other kinds of magnesium over the years, and they each have their purposes. Threonate is relative new, and doesn’t give me the runs. Have a look online. Look for credible sources, not just some random article, if Trudy doesn’t have specifics on mag threonate.
I assume if you’ve done CBT that they’ve probably talked about sleep hygiene. I’ve done it in the past, but not for sleep, but I’ve done a lot of study on sleep. So I’m assuming you are cooling the temperature in your room to around 66 degrees, while at the same time having enough blankets so you are comfortable, making sure it is dark in there, using blue-light blocking glasses between 11 and 4 am particularly, going to bed at a similar time at night, if possible letting yourself wake up when your body wants to wake up (though I know with different lifestyles that can be a challenging one). Anyway. Some people to look into are Andrew Huberman (Neurophysiogist at Stanford, lots of VERY helpful information on sleep as well as other things), and Matthew Walker on sleep. Dr Huberman and Trudy have really taught me the most.
There’s actually a lot to learn about sleep. Keep learning. Pay attention to what works and what doesn’t and what your specific body is trying to tell you. You’ll figure out things that will help. Try not to be discouraged when someone says, “Oh THIS thing worked for me and I slept all night.” If that person was short on that thing, then maybe that is why. I’ve had to keep a log and really pay attention for quite a while. But things like what Trudy is saying are very helpful. Hang in there.
Jan
Thanks for sharing what’s working for you. So glad you’re doing great with GABA, tryptophan and magnesium threonate. How much of each is working for you?
Thanks too for being so encouraging for Diane. I agree, sleep hygiene should always be implemented too and you’re so right about what works for someone else may not work for you.
Good for you on keeping a log and really paying attention. For some folks it’s straight forward and for others like you and me (I have Lyme too) ww have to be very diligent about tracking, logging, observing and adjusting.
I’ve heard Dr. Andrew Huberman’s name mentioned a few times in the last month and will check him out. I see he is a tenured professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford University School of Medicine.
Thanks too for the kind words 🙂
Diane
You could apply similar concepts when GABA works and then doesn’t work and then works and doesn’t work etc. First find the ideal dose that does work and then monitor and log carefully in terms of cycles/hormones (GABA also decreases in the luteal phase and more may be needed), dietary mishaps, parasites (some can inhibit GAD67, an enzyme that helps us convert glutamate to GABA), other digestive issues, thyroid issues, low lithium, product quality, environmental factors (like applying anti-flea treatments to pets) and infections.
When someone has just started tryptophan and they see it helping the worrying and ruminations that’s a good sign to continue and find the the ideal dose to see if that will help with insomnia. We may also add melatonin (sublingual and or timed-release) and/or theanine. GABA + theanine can be more helpful for some folks – more here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/gaba-and-theanine-mixture-improves-sleep-and-eases-anxiety/
Using GABA with tryptophan (or 5-HTP) is something I often have clients do – always based on their unique needs.
With sleep issues we also look at low blood sugar, high cortisol and EMFs.
Thanks for everyone’s suggestions. I have done CBT and still follow all the sleep hygiene rules also just finished 5 months of acupuncture. I take NAC 600 mg twice a day as suggested by one doctor which has made a difference then I use Gaba, theanine and melatonin as extras if needed now and then and also a homeopathic product called calms. I started the tryptophan at bedtime after reading your book Trudy and saw so many of my symptoms listed. I did write in Facebook that I read about some serious side effects possible from it and wondered if it should only be used for a short time? I will check out the link, thanks.
Diane
Glad to hear NAC makes a difference. Do keep us posted on how you go with the other amino acids
Please feel free to share those possible side effects here (with a link) and I’ll address it here
I looked up the link where I found the serious sounding side effects for tryptophan, rolf-hefti.com. and am wondering how long can you use it safely? I have been using 500mg at bedtime for about 6 weeks sometimes I need to add some melatonin or the Calms, these don’t give me perfect sleep but it has improved, my acupuncturist is having me try some Chinese herbs so I will see how they go.
Diane
I responded on your question on this blog https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/using-both-tryptophan-and-gaba-supplements-together-for-easing-anxiety-questions-and-answers/
I’m surprised to not see genetics mentioned here. I have a known mutation that causes an upregulated breakdown of serotonin. I’d suspect something along those lines. Also to the folks for whom GABA causes restlessness, you may want to explore the glutamate/gABA shunt. (In cases where glutamate makes me restless, NAC is a lifesaver, “sopping up” excess glutamates).
SF
Genetics isn’t mentioned because I wouldn’t expect this to have this kind of impact i.e. it works then doesn’t, then works then doesn’t, then works then doesn’t etc. But anything is possible so I’d love to hear what mutation you have and if you observe the variable effects of tryptophan working and not working? Or do you find you were never able to use tryptophan i.e. it never worked? Does 5-HTP or other serotonin-boosting approaches help?
It’s also possible that folks with genetic mutations are more prone to variable results from tryptophan when they have one or more of the factors I write about.
I typically see GABA causing restlessness when too much GABA is used. I start clients with 125mg and go up from there. I’ve often seen the restlessness and agitation happen with 500mg and 750mg (dosages that are common in many GABA products).
Good to hear NAC helps you. I’m curious if you’re saying it enables you to take GABA without feeling the restlessness? And how much GABA are you taking? And how much NAC helps?
Hi Trudy
We’ve had variable results with Tryptophan but we’re sticking with it. My son who just turned 10yrs has been prescribed Tryptophan for sleep. He started at 500mg and has taken up to 3000mg I think. I would have to go check. We went up to a max and then lowered the dose.
Sometimes we find one dosage working then sometimes nothing. However. I have settled around 1000mg most nights when I know for sure I need him to have a good night’s sleep. But, otherwise on regular nights we just do 500mg. This is just enough to be keep him asleep. But sometimes it takes a while to relax him enough to get him to sleep.
Jay Bee
Have you seen a pattern? If not I would track and log and rule out some of the factors I share in the blog – like parasites for example
What happens when he takes 1000mg? I’m curious why you don’t just always have him use this dose?
A very interesting article again Trudy, thanks so much for sharing your wealth of information. I experience all the signs of low serotonin accompanied by massive sugar cravings, huge appetite and fatigue around ovulation, the 10 or so days leading up to it. I have had numerous tests done and everything always comes back normal except for hormones, low estrogen and low progesterone. I’m 48 so probably normal for my age.
I’ve been reading that there is a link between low estrogen levels and low serotonin plus a host of other symptoms which could explain these symptoms Im having? I was going to do a trial of tryptophan around this time to see if it makes a difference, also tyrosine as thanks to your talk I recognise I have symptoms of low dopamine around this time also and am lacking motivation. Will try glutamine to help with the blood sugar and see if there’s an improvement. Could low oestrogen be causing all these symptoms I wonder?
Kathryn
Yes low estrogen/low serotonin are closely correlated and so is low progesterone/low GABA. Keep us posted on your trials of the amino acids and how they help.
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Hi Trudy,
I just recently discovered your website and I just want to thank you for all the effort you are putting out there to help people! I have been suffering with anxiety/panic attacks for about 20 years (it’s really bad when I fly and sometimes when I drive). It’s gotten to the point where I don’t want to travel and my family is wondering what’s wrong with me. I recently got your book, but haven’t finished it. I also just ordered Lidke Trytophan and GabaCalm. I don’t take any medications, not even Tylenol for a headache. I really try to stick to natural remedies. I did your questionnaire and I have a fear of heights (which is why I hate flying) and so I thought I would try GABA Calm. I am nervous about taking it though because I don’t want to make my anxiety or panic attacks worse. Do you have any recommendations on whether I should start the Tryptophan first or the GABA calm?
Thank you for everything!
Anna
You are most welcome! So glad you have my book – I wish everyone would read it as it’s a great foundation.
The best way to determine if someone may have low GABA/serotonin is to look at the low GABA/serotonin symptoms (chapter 6), rate them on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being worst, do a trial of the respective amino acid and rate the symptoms again right afterwards (in the next 2 to 30 minutes).
When I hear anxiety/panic attacks with flying and driving we typically start with serotonin support but GABA may work too. Being nervous about trying something like this could also be low serotonin or low-GABA related and sometimes you just have to trust the fact that they do work (when this is the issue), have vitamin C on hand as the antidote and start really really low to be safe.
My online GABA Quickstart group program is helpful when you have questions and need guidance (and moral support/encouragement). More here https://www.anxietynutritioninstitute.com/gabaquickstart/
Don’t forget it’s a comprehensive approach – amino acids AND diet. What is your diet like right now – gluten-free, sugar-free, caffeine-free, eating protein at breakfast for blood sugar control, real whole foods, grass-fed red meat, wild fish, fermented foods etc?
Please do let us know the outcome once you start to make changes and trial the amino acids
Trudy,
Thank you for your quick response. I have followed a keto/paleo/Mediterranean diet for about 2 years now. I eat only organic produce and grass-fed beef, wild caught fish, organic pasture raised eggs, very low sugar with no sugar substitutes (I actually don’t like the taste of anything sweet). I quit drinking caffeine about a year ago and I feel so much better. I switched to decaf and only bought from companies who were mycotoxin/mold free, but after reading your book I recently stopped drinking that as well. I started GABA calm lozenges 3 days ago. I set it on my tongue and let it dissolve for about 5 minutes, so I didn’t take the whole 125 mg. I found that it eased my anxiety a bit, but after 3 days of doing this, I am having terrible “rebound anxiety” once the GABA wears off. I feel absolute terror in my body and my muscles are shaking. So I’m thinking this isn’t a good thing. Maybe the tyrosine is not working for me? I am going to be getting the Tryptophan today so I’m hoping that will help alleviate some of my panic/anxiety. I live in Florida and it’s very moist here most of the year. I am also going to look into the possibility of mold in my system. I will update you as I continue to experiment with different amino acids/vitamins. I also put my name on the waiting list to see you. I am determined to get my life back!
Thank you for everything!
Anna