When you have anxiety it can be confusing trying to figure out the root cause. I like to start by assessing for low GABA and low serotonin because when you address these with targeted individual amino acids you typically see results right away and feel hopeful (and now have time to look for other root causes like gluten issues, high cortisol, gut issues, dietary changes etc).
But there may still be some confusion about when to use GABA and when to use tryptophan and how much of each of these amino acids to use.
I’d like to share a question I received on this blog: I am on 5-HTP for anxiety and I am wondering about trying tryptophan instead and my response so you have a clearer understanding of this:
I have started with Source Naturals GABA Calm 125 mg, 2 on awakening and two in mid-afternoon, and 2 GABA Relaxer at bedtime. It has taken some anxiety edge away from me, but I still feel some anxiety on and off, not so severe as before. I used to feel very anxious on awakening. I want to improve more.
Today, I ordered Lidtke L-trytophan 500mg and am expecting to receive it in a week. I plan to take 2 Gaba Calm on awakening and 2 in mid-afternoon, then add one 500mg Trytophan mid-afternoon and one 500 mg trytophan at bed time.
Is this a good plan? Or shall I have 2 GABA Calm on awakening, 2 trytophan mid-afternoon and 2 trytophan at bedtime.
It’s an excellent question and this is my feedback (with some additional information here for this blog post)
Firstly I’m so pleased to hear the GABA products has taken some of the anxiety edge away.
I would expect this when someone has the low GABA type of anxiety and hear this all the time despite the fact I continue to be asked the blood brain barrier question and does GABA really work as a supplement.
There is also no specific formula to be followed because each person is different and when I’m working with someone we’re figuring out what is working and why and adjusting accordingly. If something is working we continue with that until no additional benefits are seen.
Ask yourself what low GABA anxiety symptoms (this is the physical anxiety) have improved with the GABA and how much (rate each one before – out of 10; and what are they now – out of 10).
From your question it sounds like they could improve more – so if we were working together I’d continue to increase GABA before adding something new. I’d do this until the low GABA symptoms are resolved or until no additional benefits are observed.
Remember when it comes to brain chemical imbalances and anxiety we have 3 anxiety types
- Low GABA anxiety type (physical anxiety, more stiff and tense muscles)
- Low serotonin anxiety type (mental anxiety, ruminations, negative self-talk, worry)
- Low blood sugar anxiety type (physical anxiety, but more shaky)
You need to figure out which type of anxiety you are experiencing and address that. It can be different for each person but it’s not uncommon to experience all of the above.
Once that has been done and we have the ideal amount of GABA and no more low GABA anxiety symptoms I’d then check what low serotonin symptoms my client has (these are the busy mind, ruminations type or worry anxiety).
If she does have some of these symptoms, we pick one or two symptoms and do a trial with 1 x 500mg tryptophan opened on to the tongue (or less if she’s super sensitive). She rates the symptoms out of 10 before the tryptophan trial and then after the trial. Depending on how she responds on the trial, we’ll decide if she needs 1 or 2 x 500mg mid-afternoon and evening. The bedtime dose also depends on how bad the insomnia is. We continue to increase as needed based on symptoms until she has no more low serotonin type symptoms or until no additional benefits are observed.
All the while we are starting to make other changes – like diet, eating for blood sugar balance (this and using glutamine helps with the low blood sugar anxiety type), no caffeine, no sugar, looking for high cortisol, no gluten, looking at gut health and for other nutritional deficiencies.
Here are some links to additional resources related to the above:
- The amino acid questionnaire to help you figure out which anxiety type you have: low GABA or low serotonin
- How to do an amino acid trial
- Targeted individual amino acids: what do we really mean?
- Anxiety and the amino acids: an overview
- In this blog I make the following recommendation: if you do not have my book The Antianxiety Food Solution, I highly recommend getting it and reading it before jumping in to taking amino acids
- Here are the supplements I use with my clients
I’d love to hear your feedback – do you/did you have the low GABA type of anxiety or the low serotonin type of anxiety or the low blood sugar type of anxiety or all three?
And feel free to share the before rating (from 1 to 10) and the after rating (from 1 to 10) once you’re taking the corresponding amino acid.
Trudy, do you always suggest that tryptophan be opened and taken on the tongue, or just for the initial trial dose?
Abby
Always for the trial and then it depends on each person and how they respond to swallowed to opened. With some people with digestive issues swallowing is not as effective or they need more for same effects. GABA does always seem to be best opened all the time.
Trudy, do you prefer Tryophan over 5-HPT and you tell us why.
Also if one is on a low dose antidepressant and it trying to reduce it is it okay to add Tryophan, I know one should work with a dr my Doctor prefers 5-HPT but I do not feel it is working correctly for me as I am experiencing mood swings for the first time since I went from 50 to 100 and wanted to push to try Tryophan.
L love your knowledge and information, please consider taking me as a patient even if it is via Skype, please please
Hi Trudy
Thanks so much for all your info and research. I commented on one of your other blog posts that GABA doesn’t seem to work for me (I have tried up to 1200mg under the tongue) and I’m wondering why as I definitely have the low GABA anxiety symptoms.
You’ve mentioned on other blog posts that GABA (amino acids in general?) doesn’t work well if your thyroid is not working well. Why is that?
I have a thyroid that doesn’t work well and I take 40mg of Armour thyroid as prescribed by my health practitioner.
Should that help to make the GABA work or would my suboptimal thyroid still be interfering with the GABA?
I have read replies on your other blog posts from some other people that say GABA doesn’t seem to work for them either. It would be very interesting to try to find a common thread for the people that don’t respond to GABA.
I’ve had my genome sequenced at 23andme so I know my genetics if that helps at all (I do have a compromised Methylation pathway).
Thanks
Natalie
When this happens it could be that a person doesn’t need it or it could be due to thyroid health. It may also be genetics or gut health/dysbiosis/candida/bacterial imbalance/SIBO/parasites or prior or past benzodiazepine or SSRI prescriptions, or past or current fluoroquinolone antibiotics. I actually look at all past and current medications and do other “detective” work.
Hi Natalie, you aren’t alone – after much trial and tribulation I concluded that GABA doesn’t work for me in reducing anxiety. It must do something though, because I found it works great in relief of headaches on the rare occasion I get them. I guess this would indicate that my anxiety is not caused by GABA issues.
Wishing you well on your healing journey. 🙂
Hi! Found your amazing website a couple of days ago while researching my MTHRFR “mutations”. I have one question regarding all the very sound nutritional and supplement advice, which I am so ready to implement. I tapered off two-three years of benzodiazepine use (not consistent use but certainly for longer than a few weeks at a time). I’ve been off the meds for about 8 weeks now, and still don’t feel 100%. I believe GABA deficiency is my problem but I’m wondering if I should start
supplementation now while I’m still in withdrawal. Will the protocol help my current symptoms? Also want to try the Vitamin B6 as I’ve always had social anxiety which got worse after my first panic attack.
Valerie
I have my clients get nutritionally sound before working with their doctor on a taper but many are in your situation and do benefit by addressing deficiencies and imbalances. Glad you’re enjoying my site! My book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” (on Amazon here http://amzn.to/2nFbVXY) maps our my entire nutritional program so you can get to the root causes of why you were anxious to start.
Trudy
Can you show an indication of what optimal thyroid test results should reflect this is so confusing to all and Dr’s do not really look into it all. I just mean that what range should make one request a trail of medication from their MD
Thanks Trudi
Trudy
If one has been using 5 hpt to reduce an antidepressant and 5 HPT starts to not agree with that person (suppressing appetite to much) went from 50 to 100 HPT go the antidepressant down from 50 to 25 but had no appetite, an one just immediately stop the 5 HPT or do you have to wean off and when to stop the 5hpt can you just increase your antidepressant but up until you find another course of action as I decreased 5 HPT back to 50 but I am experiencing
anxiety and drop in mood Thank you Trudy for all your input
Carol
The amino acids do not need to be weaned or tapered.
Hi – Trudy you prefer using Tryptophan to 5-HPT can you explain why.
Also Trudy if one is a female -60 years old – 4 ft 10 and 110 pounds would one use dosages for a child or an adult or does that not matter.
Is it feasible that a person could be on 25 pristiq (which is time released antidepressant) and find that 50 HPT is helping but when they increase from 50 it is not so positive. Most Drs want to get you to 300 5HPT before further reducing the meds hence the size and weight question
Hi Trudy if one is a female -60 years old – 4 ft 10 and 110
pounds would one use dosages for a child or an adult or does that not matter.
Is it feasible that a person could be on 25 pristiq (which is time released antidepressant) and find that 50 HPT is helping but when they increase from 50 it is not so positive. Most Drs want to get you to 300 5HPT before further reducing the meds hence the size and weight question
Hi Trudy,
Thanks for all the work you have done in this field. I have only just found out I have Pyroluria, and have been on my supplements through the advice of a Intergrated GP here in Perth, Western Australia. I am on 150mg BG, 50mg P5P and 50mg Zinc Picolinate. I am also take 400mg SAMe (Before breakfast on an empty stomach). I would like to know how much evening primrose oil to take, I have bought some capsules that are 1000mg, but it says that only contains 100mg of the GLA.Is one a day enough?
It has only been two months, so I know these are early days, but when am I likely to have my dreams come back? and should i maybe ask my GP if i should increase the B6. i am a small guy, only 64kg, so I know supplements are based on weight.
I still have a very low appetite and crave caffeine to get me going and to complete my assignments. I am in my final year of my Bachelor of Health Science majoring in Nutrition and Health Promotion, so i really want to conquer my social anxiety and fear of public speaking so I too can spread the word about food, nutrients and anxiety.
Well done on your work! much appreciated.
Sincerely, Nick 🙂
Nick
The pyroluria supps are not weight based – some people need more and some less. Pleasant dreams typically come back in a few weeks. 1300mg is typical starting amount for EPO.
With caffeine craving I’d look into adrenal issues too
Good luck with your studies!
Dear trudy,
You are greatly helpful:)
I have anxiety and im claustrophobic..i watched your youtube and understood i should take magnesium..zinc..b complex and tryptophan..is that correct? Can you please confirm or otherwise advise.thank you
DA
I’m sorry to hear but I can’t consult via the blog. We are all unique and can different root causes so I have clients do the amino acid questionnaire and a trial of the aminos. I also look for other root causes like low zinc, adrenal issues, stress, leaky gut etc. I highly recommend getting my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” and following the plan (on Amazon here) http://amzn.to/2nipWGY or educate yourself via all the articles on my blog.
Hi Trudy,
My husband has a real issue with anxiety and low grade depression the last few years and is open to trying anything but he has the MtHFR gene mutation. I’ve heard that this changes what works well. Any insight into that issue you have would be greatly appreciated.
Jere
Jere
Having the MTHFR gene mutation doesn’t mean it’s expressing or even causing issues. If we determine it is for a client we address with diet, lifestyle (like detox support) and additional methylfolate (for some it’s too much, for some a small amount is fine). Whether or not it is causing issues I still proceed with an assessment of brain chemical imbalance, a trial of the amino acids and all the other changes (like diet, gut health, adrenals, other deficiencies etc)
Hi Trudy, I wasn’t sure where to post this info I’m bringing to you. Its about Oxytocin. I have tried this but it was given to me to be used vaginally and I didn’t notice anything using it. So I did a lot of research on it. I came up with a pharmacy located in Colorado. They have a patent on a tablet that works thru the digestion. My doc wasn’t aware of this, so I gave her info and we ordered it. It will be awhile before I get it but will update you when I try it. I did talk to the pharmacist and she said its good stuff and works great for anxiety, autism, ptsd etc. I’m sure you know all the benefits. The name of the pharmacy is Belmar Compounding Pharmacy and I’m sure they would be glad to talk to anyone about this. FYI Well, you may already know about it!!! O well just thought I would throw this into the mix….:)
Hi Kaye
Thanks for sharing – please do keep us posted . I’ve blogged quite a bit about oxytocin – here is one https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/oxytocin-for-social-anxiety-pyroluria-depression/ If you search the blog you’ll find more.
The interview I did with Dr Woeller on oxytocin in season 4 was fascinating https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-low-cholesterols-oxytocin/ The link to low cholesterol is an interesting one. I’m curious what your total cholesterol is? And how you score on the pyroluria questionnaire? https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
Dear Trudy,
I have just acquired some Source Naturals GABA calm. I have recently realised that my constant panic is almost certainly LOW GABA. It is very physical, wakes me out of sleep, occurs within 5-5 minutes after lying down, when I am concentrating etc. etc.
I was dx with severe panic at menopause which was crippling and put on Effexor 75mg which I have reduced to 37.5mg again!! I carefully came off it tapering extremely slowly and weeks later BAM.
I have ME and have been on Clonazepam for sleep as well for a long time. I have been able to systematically reduce my dose.
I really would like to substitute these medications with GABA and my question is it OK to trial a small dose while I am taking low doses of these meds
Many Thanks
Maggie
Maggie
I use GABA and other nutrients while my clients are still on these types of medications but I do a lot more too. We address ALL possibly underlying factors BEFORE they even start to taper – so blood sugar, gluten, the gut, the adrenals, the sex hormones and so.
It’s also important to be aware that tapering benzodiazepines needs to be done extremely slowly and that taper side-effects are common but being nutritionally in a good place before tapering does help tremendously.
That being said GABA and the other aminos are wonderful for immediate relief so I always use them from day 1.
Maggie L
Have you added the supplements and how are you fairing
Thanks so much Trudy. I have an excellent ME specialist here in Melbourne Australia who checks all the above and is very involved in ME/CFS research especially the microbiome. I am already gluten/dairy free and on thyroid hormone.
I am actively tapering down my antidepressant again and will also now be able to taper the Clonazepam even further.
My immediate reaction to the GABA has been amazing, I started at half the recommended dose three times daily and my panic/hot sweats are already reducing DRAMATICALLY.
I am so excited that I finally have a handle on this issue which has bugged me for years. I have been following your posts and webinars for some time and so grateful that you add so much to people like myself. I have had ME/(CFS hate that term)for 40 years.
Many thanks again
Maggie
Maggie
Wonderful to hear about the GABA response!
Hi Trudy! This thread wont let me respond directly under your response, so hope you see this. I have taken your Pyroluria quiz and scored( with both common and uncommon symptoms) a 25. So at that time was tested through the urine and my pyrroles were normal at 11 and ref. range was 0-20. My zinc was normal and was copper. About my cholesterol, the lowest of my life was when I first had anxiety in 2004 and it was 160 but since then it wavers from 200-230, 230 is what it has been all my life. I would have to dig some more to get total chol. figures. Don’t have it done often. I do have your book about pyroluria and not sure that I have it and how do you rule it out except for the testing? Thank you for thinking of this tho. and I do take B6. SO how do you know if you have it if you cant rely on testing? Or can you. Sorry I haven’t replied sooner, as my email provider has been being naughty!!!! had to have them come in and try to fix it but not sure it is. groan….
Kaye
I don’t rely on the pyroluria urine test because of false negatives. I use the questionnaire and response to the supplements.
Total cholesterol 160 and below has been shown to be an issue https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/total-cholesterol-too-low-anxiety-and-depression-women/
Thanks for letting us know about the blog comments functionality – we’re looking for a new plugin to handle comments.
Ok so I’m going back to your book and do the protocol to see if there is improvement. Ive taken zinc in a separate supplement but will get some of that. With hubbie dealing cancer my systems down and got cold and now ears are filling again. don’t want to do antibiotics so have turned to goldenseal/echinacia mix hoping that will ease the fluid. I have had this once before but since you cant tell if its bacterial or virus, I’m going with something I hope will clear both and topped this off with bladder infection which I’m treating with d-mannose. I had vertigo really bad with last infection and am setting some whoo whoos in the morning when I get up. Thought it was related to high cortisol but who know???? luv K
Hello Trudy
I have been reading all about amino acids and I found Doc Parsley’s Sleep Formula online. It contains pH GABA. I have heard of GABA but not pH GABA. I prefer natural ingredients where available, is pH GABA natural? Do you recommend its use?Main ingredients include: L-Trytophan, GABA (as phGABA), 5-Hydroxytrytophan, Melatonin.Other Ingredients:Xylitol, Citric Acid, Natural Flavors, Stevia 80% Glycosides, Natural Colors.
Thanks for your help,
Jacqueline
from England, UK
Jacqueline
I assume it’s pharmaGABA or phenibut which I don’t like https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/gaba-for-anxiety-instead-of-phenibut/ I also use individual amino acids so we can adjust up or down as needed. Also with a proprietary formula like this you don’t know how much you are getting which is less than ideal
Hi Trudy
I heard you speak a while ago and mention tryptophan as good for the type of anxiety with low confidence, worrying about people not liking you etc.
My husband is currently suffering from this (it’s his pattern but particularly bad at the moment). He is also having sleep issues so a vicious cycle.
We are in Australia where apparently you can’t get tryptophan so I bought L-tryptophan at a sports store but apparently it’s not the same so I shouldn’t bother?
Would 5htp do the job or is there anything else you can recommend?
Thanks
Nicky
Nicky
I would trial the tryptophan that is available in Australia and then trial 5-HTP and if neither of those work order some Lidtke tryptophan and trial that
Hello Trudy,
I finally found where I could ask my questions
I listened to your presentation on the vitamin summit and found that you had given quite alot of interesting information. One thing that I noted was said is that GABA is not vegan/ vegetarian. I am a vegan and was wondering whether there are additional options for those like myself who are vegans,
Bev
I’m not sure where you heard that GABA is not vegan/ vegetarian.
Hi Trudy: what kind of gaba should I take for epilepsy? I also take CBD oil but my daughter says if it doesn’t have MCT oil I am wasting my money. What are your thoughts? Thanks! Mary Jane.
I have also heard that CBD oil is good for anxiety also it will be interesting to hear what Trudy has to say
Mary Jane
I recommend that anyone with epilepsy who wants to use GABA works with a practitioner well versed in epilepsy and the amino acids and someone who would recommend GABA rather than phenibut (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/gaba-for-anxiety-instead-of-phenibut/).
I have not seen any evidence to show that MCT oil should be used with CBD oil. I’d be more concerned about the quality of the CBD oil and if it’s providing benefits.
Hi Trudy,
I’ve been dealing with insomnia, tremors, and heart pounding in the ears for about 15 months. I’ve been to lots of Drs and have been taken off thyroid medication and have tried various anxiety and sleep Rx’s. Nothing worked well and most of them made things worse. I’m wondering if there is an amino acid or combination of amino acids that I could try to see if I can get some sleep. I’ve tried several at the recommendation of various Drs with very little success. Can you recommend someplace to start doing trials and how to do the trials of amino acids to help with tremors and insomnia? I know you can’t do diagnosing, but any recommendations you can give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Rita
I heard taurine an anime acid 1000mg taken with NAG 600 mg taken before bed helps with insomnia. Due to racing thoughts. It helps me a little.
Rita
I’m sorry to hear this. If this insomnia is due to low serotonin or low GABA I do trials of tryptophan and/or GABA, one at a time. You can find those links above in this blog. My book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” (here on Amazon http://amzn.to/2kptFWm) has an entire chapter on the amino acids with all the details and dosage information as well as precautions. I recommend reading this before experimenting with the amino acids.
If the insomnia is due to high cortisol (based on saliva testing) then Seriphos is the product I use with clients https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/seriphos-original-formula-anxiety-insomnia-cortisol/
With a client with tremors I’d also look into low B12 as a possible factor, plus residual side-effects from anxiety and sleep medications.
> Hello Trudy
>
> I wonder if you could help me please?
>
> My niece Lisa who is 43 and has been suffering from anxiety issues
> for a number of years now and has been taking antidepressants which
> make her even worse! I heard your talk on the Sweet Freedom seminar
> as I myself have an addiction to sugar! When listening to you speak
> it was as if you were talking directly about my niece!
>
> I sent her the link and she has listened a number of times now, has
> bought and read your book and is on the second time around reading
> through it. She is making the necessary changes to turn her life
> around. She reduced her antidepressant drugs and no longer takes
> them but is still not totally ok. She has been taking Trytophan but
> feels this is not quite enough she needs the GABA especially to help
> some of the anxiety problems still.
>
> The biggest problems she is experiencing is obtaining the GABA Calm
> in the UK! One that is of good quality. She has read the recommended
> one on your site but they do not ship to the UK. She had found
> another company ‘i.herb’ but they are saying they dont ship it either!
>
>
> So the dilemma is could you recommend where she buys the GABA Calm
> here in the UK and a brand that is reputable please that you feel
> would be suitable?. There are lots of GABA out there but finding a
> good quality one that is available her in the UK becoming a bit of a
> minefield!
>
> Thanking you in advance
> Kindest regards
>
Hi SW
Yes getting supplements shipped internationally can be a hassle.
I have looked at the Gaba calm in iherb and it looks as though they are only refusing to ship to the UK if you choose the first shipping method. The other shipping methods seem to be OK. Have a go and see if that is the case.
If not then you can use a ‘freight forwader’. I have done this in the past. This is a company in the US that you can get the supplements shipped to and then they will forward on to you in the UK. There are quite a few companies that do this but I have used shipito.com in the past and have been very happy with their service.
I am from the UK living in the US and I have found that Douglas Labs Gaba is very good as I am battling the same issues as your niece, I think you may be able to go on Amazon look at it and order it and have it shipped, now you may have to go onto Amazon USA and order and put your UK address in for shipping as a gift”””
I have done the reverse of this to get things I wanted and USed Amazon UK and had it sent to me at my USA address.
I have know what you are all going through believe me.
Hope this helps a little