I have not had any clients experience the need to taper or slowly wean their tryptophan dose or report tapering side-effects similar to those they experienced when tapering off an antidepressant. However, I recently had someone ask this question on the blog (and then had someone else ask a similar question) so I’m sharing these questions and my responses in the hope of gleaning some additional information (and educating you if this applies to you). I never say never and am always learning. I’m also very interested to know how common this is and what some of the underlying factors could be.
Here is the question that was asked by Lara (we’ll call her Lara) and slightly paraphrased for clarity:
I’ve been taking 1500 mg of tryptophan for 3 months, and it has helped a lot with sleep and depression. I dropped to 1000 mg about a week ago then 500mg just to see how I’d do without it. I didn’t think it was numbing my feelings, but I am experiencing a return of feeling good.
I’ve been on antidepressants before and I am feeling the same withdrawal effects as when I weaned off meds. This is exactly why I chose to not go back to pharmaceuticals. It was difficult to wean off. How do I taper tryptophan without experiencing withdrawal symptoms? Thank you for your valuable knowledge.
These are the kinds of questions I’d ask a client in this situation:
- Was the 1500mg helping and which low serotonin symptoms were eased?
- How did this change when you reduced to 1000mg and then reduced to 500mg? i.e. did the low serotonin symptoms come back?
- Which antidepressant are you comparing these affects to? And how long ago did you wean off the antidepressant?
- Which brand of tryptophan you are using? (I find Lidtke is the best quality)
Keep in mind that we always want to be sure it’s not a one-off situation. In order to be sure someone is observing mild adverse effects from a supplement I’ll often have my client stop it and then add it back to make sure. And sometimes more than once.
In this instance repeating the process may be a good idea i.e. going back to 1000mg and then 1500mg and then reducing again, carefully documenting in a food mood supplement log.
It turns out that Lara was using the Lidtke tryptophan and she was seeing wonderful benefits for her low serotonin symptoms with none of the typical SSRI side-effects:
the 1500mg before bed with a small carb helped me get to sleep and stay asleep. It also helped with anxiety and depression during day. I tend to be a worrier, have social anxiety, and get stuck with negative thoughts about myself and others. And have very little interest in life.
I was on Zoloft from 2005 – 2009. Got off of that and did Lexapro for only 6 months in 2012. The Zoloft was life changing for me but I did not like the side effects and being on an antidepressant for the rest of my life.
The tryptophan is superior to these SSRIs [selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors] – no sexual side effects, no weight gain, or anhedonia [inability to feel pleasure in normally pleasurable activities].
She describes how she reduced the tryptophan and how her withdrawal symptoms were similar to those she experienced when tapering off her SSRIs in the past:
The withdrawal effects were felt when dropping from 1500mg to 1000mg, to 500mg, then zero over 2 days and they lasted about 3 days. By the 4th day I was no longer feeling bad.
The symptoms are hard to explain – it felt like a tight band around my head, also brain zaps (this is a common SSRI withdrawal symptom many describe feeling in their head).
The worst of it was a deep agitated free-floating anxiety like you’re walking along the edge of a cliff and there’s a physical pain in your gut. Fortunately, it was only present from waking up till around 2pm.
These are questions I’d ask or wonder about
As I mentioned in the introduction, I have not had any clients experience the need to taper or slowly wean their tryptophan dose or report tapering side-effects similar to those they experienced when tapering off an antidepressant. But if this is an issue some individuals experience I’d like to know about it
I’d also like to know how long the tapering side-effects of tryptophan last and how severe the symptoms are. In Lara’s case the symptoms were pretty severe but fortunately they only lasted 3 days which is very much shorter than SSRI tapers.
There could be confounding factors and here are additional questions I’d ask or wonder about if a client experienced similar adverse tapering effects. These are questions you could ask yourself if you have experienced this when stopping tryptophan abruptly:
- Could the prior use of SSRI prescriptions be a factor? (but I have worked with many clients with prior use of SSRIs and not have tryptophan tapering issues)
- What else has changed in terms of stress, diet, hidden gluten exposure, or even the something like a recent introduction of collagen (which may deplete serotonin levels in susceptible folks)?
- Are there hormonal changes that could affect serotonin levels – like in a woman with PMS or perimenopausal or menopausal symptoms? (again, I’ve worked with many women of all ages and haven’t observed this to be an issue)
- If you are prone to the winter blues and reduced winter serotonin, could stopping the tryptophan in the winter play a role? (I have had clients have SSRI tapering issues in winter because of being prone to the winter blues and choose to work with their doctors on their SSRI taper in the spring and summer for this reason)
- Could this also be an issue with summer blues in hot states like Arizona?
- Could any of these play a role: a recent medical procedure, a course of antibiotics (especially fluoroquinolones) or antifungals, poor gut health, a new infection, decreased immunity or increased inflammation?
- Could low levels of these nutrients play a role: vitamin B6, ferritin, magnesium and zinc?
- Would using high doses of vitamin C during the “taper” help reduce some of the symptoms? (this works well as an antidote when you take tryptophan and don’t need it and want to negate some of the negative effects, so may help in this situation)
Stopped tryptophan and felt very angry and down
The other question I had about tryptophan weaning is this one from someone who shared that she had suggested tryptophan for a friend. This friend was
experiencing a lot of ruminating and anxiety. She responded beautifully and felt great. About a year later, she tried to stop taking it, and said she felt very angry and down. Is there a weaning process for the tryptophan?
This could possibly be related to the above and you could pose similar questions but based on on what I see with clients I feel this is more of a matter of stopping the tryptophan too soon while she still had low serotonin – especially if the ruminating and anxiety came back. Feeling angry and down are classic signs of low serotonin.
The questions asked were specifically about tryptophan but they could also possibly apply to some individuals who stop 5-HTP abruptly.
I’d love to hear if you’ve experienced anything like this with either tryptophan or 5-HTP and if yes please share your answers to some of the above questions.
Right now, I’m afraid I don’t have an answer for you on how to taper tryptophan without these withdrawal symptoms: a tight band around the head, brain zaps and agitated free-floating anxiety. Right now, I’m not sure how big an issue this is. If it is common, I’m hoping some of the feedback I receive may provide some answers.
I have been off Zoloft for 16 months now, after 15 years of SSRIs. Have had a really rough withdrawal with major food sensitivity, headaches, dizziness and more. That just seemed to be getting a little better. But have had a week of waking at 3:30 am so tried one 500 mg L Tryptophan last night. Slept much better but felt awfully moody today. Will throw away the L Tryptophan. Had a definite bad reaction.
Kathy
Sorry to hear about your rough Zoloft taper. Tryptophan and other serotonin support, plus overall nutritional support like addressing the gut, adrenals, low zinc, low B6, no gluten, blood sugar control etc etc before starting a taper can help a great deal. Once someone has already tapered from an SSRI, using tryptophan (plus the above nutritional support) can help too.
With all the amino acids I start with the trial method (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/how-to-do-an-amino-acid-trial-for-anxiety/) during the day to figure out an ideal amount. For some people 500mg is too high and I would not base my opinion of tryptophan on using it just one time. Less may help the sleep and not cause moodiness in the day. We also need to consider other factors that can cause 3:30am waking – gluten, low blood sugar, high cortisol, SIBO, EMFS etc
I experience the symptom of “a tight band around my head” but have never had a practioner understand it when I’ve described it. This is the first time I’ve had acknowledgement of it. What is that caused by? I have been reading your info and believe that both tryptophan and gaba would help me, and I’m curious about tyrosine too.
Beth
This tight band around the head feeling relates to the tryptophan “taper” Lara describes. Since I don’t ever see this issue with clients I’m don’t know why it happens. I have often heard of these types of symptoms – tight band around the head, brain zaps, increased anxiety – from clients who are tapering SSRIs and benzos.
Other than this you’ll see tension headaches often described with this tight band around the head feeling in some people. More here https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/tension-headache/symptoms-causes/syc-20353977 It may be related to muscle tension and/or stress which tells me that supporting low serotonin and/or low GABA and/or low magnesium may help. Physical approaches may help too – physical therapy, massage, chiropractor, craniosacral work etc
A little off topic but It’s interesting that I had all these symptoms and a few more when I quit my 30+ years of heavy caffeine use. Even though I’ve been off caffeine for a few years there have been a couple of times since I quit when I have accidentally had something with caffeine in it and I will have symptoms for a few days afterwards. Our bodies can do some weird stuff!
MSH
Thanks for sharing! Yes, headaches are very common when in caffeine withdrawal. This is the first time I’ve heard someone relate to the tight band type headache and brain zaps feeling plus anxiety. But as you say our bodies do weird stuff and we’re all unique in how we respond to caffeine, meds, supps, toxins and even foods!
Hi Trudy,
Im taking Effexor 75mg and Celexa 10mg .
Can I use Tryptophan to taper down Celexa? If so, how can I do it?
I’m going to talk to my doctor about it and want to be prepeared.
My concern is the possibility of getting Serotonin syndrome even tho I’m taking low dosages.
I don’t want to take them my whole life 🙁
I really appreciate all you do.
Sonia
I’d discuss the following with your doctor https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/taper-from-antidepressant-tryptophan-amino-acids/ There is no research on tryptophan used with Effexor or Celexa causing serotonin syndrome but it’s still a precaution and needs medical monitoring. Also, I only have clients use tryptophan when they are on only ONE antidepressant (always with the prescribing doctor’s approval).
Will you be writing a blog on tryptophan cautions? Preliminary research via the Open Medicine Foundation at Stanford is issuing a strong warning about tryptophan supplementation: https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2018/10/18/the-metabolic-trap-shines-during-the-symposium-on-the-molecular-basis-of-me-cfs-at-stanford/
Robin
Thank you for sharing this. It’s very interesting and I will take a deeper look into this and connect with some colleagues for their insights too.
After an initial very quick review of the article here are a few thoughts
– “IDO1 is the first enzyme out of the gate. It breaks down tryptophan correctly most of the time, but two circumstances can make it fail: if it lacks the substrate it needs to do its job, or if tryptophan levels are very high.” One of the key substrates for breaking down tryptophan is vitamin B6 and it’s commonly low, is depleted by many medications (like the birth control pill), stress, gluten issues/leaky gut etc. I’d love to know if this was looked at in the 6 patients, together with other markers of inflammation as we know good levels of B6 help with reducing inflammation. Many with CFS have low levels of B vitamins, especially vitamin B6/pyridoxine https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10450194
– ME/CFS symptoms are listed: “including impaired cognitive function, movement, and smell, dysautonomia, motor neuron problems, air hunger, dopamine production, POTS, and pain” and are attributed dysfunction of “six nuclei or neurons in the midbrain which control serotonergic pathways in the brain.” I’d like to add that these same symptoms can also be caused by mold toxicity, gluten issues, mercury/lead toxicity, Lyme disease etc. I’d love to see these factors were ruled out in the sample of 6 patients.
– I’d also like to know what tests they used to measure tryptophan and kynurenine
– I don’t have evidence to confirm this statement: “You can actually induce autoimmunity – an autoimmunity you cannot recover from – by taking tryptophan”
Right now they are saying this is an hypothesis and more testing needs to be done
We do know that many many people benefit immensely by taking tryptophan. If this hypothesis does turn out to have some merit it’s not to be taken lightly and we’d need a way to determine who may be adversely affected.
This article doesn’t link to any of the research papers and hope to get more answers once I find them. So for now my comments relate to linked blog post.
I’m curious how you came to learn of this and your interest in this area?
Hi Trudy—
Thanks for the in-depth response. I value the work you do and I value the work that’s going on at the Open Medicine Foundation. I am a psychologist who works with many chronically ill people.
You may wish to go to the Open Medicine Foundation site for links to all the important research taking place at this time:https://www.omf.ngo. Ron Davis, PhD and international colleagues are seeking to eliminate ME/CFS/Fibromyalgia. Currently they are studying the sickest of the sick. It is likely there are different subsets of ME/CFS/Fibromyalgia patients. If you are familiar with Robert Naviaux’s, MD, PhD work on the cell danger response, it is in part sponsored by the OMF.
The OMF has many you tube presentations of the latest research. Their science is excellent and the forefront of clinical interdisciplinary research. I think all functional/integrative clinicians need to be aware of this work.
Robin
My pleasure! I really value contributions and questions from folks in my community – it keeps me current and on my toes
I will check out their material and reach out to them too. And yes I am familiar with Dr. Naviaux’s cell danger study with autism. I blogged about it here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/low-dose-suramin-autism-disables-cell-danger-response-speech-calm-focus-play/ But I wasn’t aware OMF was helping to sponsor his work.
Given that you work with many chronically ill people I’d curious to hear if you’ve seen some validity for this serotonin/tryptophan with a subset of your CFS clients/patients? What about other chronically ill patients and which conditions? If yes, are both tryptophan and 5-HTP issues? And were other factors like inflammation and low B6 status considered?
I also can’t help but wonder if using approaches like tryptophan depletion approaches may help those with high serotonin. I blog about collagen/gelatin and tryptophan depletion here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/collagen-gelatin-lower-serotonin-increase-anxiety-depression/ One 2014 study didn’t find that ATD/acute tryptophan depletion helped those with CFS (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25227994) but it was only 5 patiients.