Naomi asked these questions about tryptophan timing, using it in the morning and her PMDD (premenstrual dysphoric disorder) symptoms of anxiety, depression and bad sleep:
I heard your talk on the Biology of Trauma summit, thank you it was great. When’s the best time to take tryptophan? I want to try it for PMDD depression & anxiety along with accompanied bad/little sleep.
I’ve read it needs to be taken on an empty stomach. If I take it in the mornings will it make me drowsy for the day? I struggle with having an empty stomach in the evenings as I often need to eat something close to bedtime to have the energy to sleep through.
I thanked Naomi for her kind words and shared that tryptophan is best used mid-afternoon and evening when serotonin levels take a downwards dip. And tryptophan (and the other amino acids) must always be taken on an empty stomach/away from protein. I also shared how she may want to experiment with also using 5-HTP at various times in the day and in different combinations (more on that below).
Regarding the evening dose, tryptophan can be used between dinner and a bedtime snack if a snack is necessary for blood sugar stability (for improving sleep).
I shared this blog as an additional resource for her – Tryptophan for PMS: premenstrual dysphoria, mood swings, tension, and irritability
In a study published in 1999, A placebo-controlled clinical trial of L-tryptophan in premenstrual dysphoria, tryptophan was found to reduce symptoms of PMS when used in the luteal phase or second half of the cycle (i.e. after ovulation).
I’ve seen both tryptophan and 5-HTP improve symptoms in 2-3 cycles (often in conjunction with GABA) and other steps I outline in the above blog. I don’t typically have clients only use it after ovulation but this is one way a trial could be approached.
Using a combination of tryptophan and 5-HTP
Regarding Naomi’s question about taking tryptophan in the morning and her concern about it making her drowsy during the day, this is my feedback about possibly experimenting with also using 5-HTP at various times in the day and in different combinations:
- Many folks do not need serotonin support earlier in the day since it goes down at the end of the day but there are some women who do
- If you are someone who does need serotonin support earlier in the day, you may do very well with tryptophan i.e. it may not make you sleepy
- If you are someone who does need serotonin support earlier in the day, you may find that tryptophan does make you sleepy and you do better with 5-HTP earlier in the day. In this case, you would use 5-HTP in the morning (as needed, possibly on waking and/or mid-morning) and tryptophan in the afternoon and evening.
And just to add to the mix of variations, keep in mind that some folks do better on 5-HTP (at any time of the day) and some folks with high cortisol find 5-HTP too stimulating.
The way to figure out which amino acid and which combination works best for you is to do a trial of the various combinations and keep a careful log of your responses.
I really do recommend my book when you are new to the amino acids
I also reminded her that when you are new to the amino acids I really do recommend my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” so you understand exactly how to use them. There is an entire chapter on the amino acids.
I also cover other anxiety nutrition solutions like gluten/sugar/caffeine removal (all important for anxiety, depression and sleep), blood sugar control (often a factor in not being able to sleep through the night and daytime anxiety), gut health (affects mood and can also affect sleep), pyroluria (the zinc, vitamin B6 and evening primrose oil are key for hormone health). I reminded her that it’s the amino acids and diet we must work on.
If you’ve been reading my blog posts and following me for awhile, you know I speak on many summits. I see these interviews as a great introduction for folks new to the amino acids but cannot possibly cover everything in 45-60 minutes.
Additional information on PMDD and low serotonin
Here is additional information on PMDD and low serotonin – Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder: Epidemiology and Treatment:
It is possible that women with PMDD are more sensitive to [the] effects of estrogens on serotonergic function. Women with PMDD or PMS exhibit specific serotonin abnormalities that are particularly apparent in the late luteal phase [or second half of the cycle] when estrogen levels have declined. These include a deficiency in whole blood serotonin, blunted serotonin production in response to l-tryptophan challenge and, and aggravated premenstrual symptoms during tryptophan depletion.
Be aware that the authors recommend antidepressants as the first-line treatment for PMDD and unfortunately do not mention using tryptophan, GABA or a dietary approach.
I always use this approach when serotonin is low
Keep in mind that this discussion about tryptophan and 5-HTP timing and combinations is not necessarily only applicable for PMDD or PMS but can be used across the board when serotonin support is needed. I always use this approach when serotonin is low i.e. someone has worry-type ruminating anxiety, depression, afternoon and evening cravings, irritability, anger issues.
Resources if you are new to using the amino acids as supplements
If you are new to using the amino acids tryptophan/5-HTP or GABA as supplements, here is the Amino Acids Mood Questionnaire from The Antianxiety Food Solution (you can see all the low serotonin symptoms here) and a brief overview here, Anxiety and targeted individual amino acid supplements: a summary.
As I mentioned above, if you suspect low serotonin or low levels of any of the neurotransmitters and do not yet have my book, The Antianxiety Food Solution – How the Foods You Eat Can Help You Calm Your Anxious Mind, Improve Your Mood, and End Cravings, I highly recommend getting it and reading it before jumping in and using amino acids so you are knowledgeable. And be sure to share it with the team you or your loved one is working with.
The book doesn’t include product names (per the publisher’s request) so this blog, The Antianxiety Food Solution Amino Acid and Pyroluria Supplements, lists the amino acid products that I use with my individual clients and those in my group programs.
Have you (or a loved one) been diagnosed with PMDD, PMS or have low serotonin symptoms?
Has tryptophan or 5-HTP helped and what combination and what timing has worked best for you?
Feel free to post any questions here too.
tryptophan was first recommended to me when i was attempting to maintain sobriety….and had a very upsetting relationship/break-up to navigate. i was able to get throught it and stay sober and sleep through the night..all of which i give credit to the tryptophan for. i still take it regularly, concider it a blessing and highly recommend it.
Maryanne
Thanks for sharing! This is wonderful to hear. Folks are often surprised to learn that amino acids like tryptophan (and others) can help with sobriety i.e. living a life free of drug or alcohol use (I’d be curious to know what your drug-of-choice was if you’re ok to share). As you have discovered, tryptophan works to stop the addiction and address underlying biochemistry (low serotonin) that drove the initial addiction. And in your case helped with sleep and the emotional aspects of your breakup.
I’m glad to hear you are still getting the benefits. You may find this blog useful https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/imposter-syndrome-and-low-serotonin-is-tryptophan-the-solution/ – it has a section on why serotonin may continue to be low.
Trudy
Thanks so much for this blog..your emails and sharing all your wisdom. It’s greatly appreciated!! My mom 67 lost her husband 8months ago and was on cbd oil for insomnia. Until a month ago when she started experiencing high blood sugar levels. We stopped the cbd because she had very bad heart palpitations and also high blood pressure. I started her on combination of herbs. And then remembered you spoke about 5htp. Ive also listened to alot your summits..priceless!!I suffer from lyme disease and had l thyrosine. At the moment she has 2 thyrosine in the morning and at night 100mg 5 oh trytophan. And passion flower and valerian. But she still doesnt sleep. Shes awake at least 5 times at night. I give her herbs for the blood sugar. Her blood pressure has stabilized. We are not giving her any carbs at the moment for the blood glucose. Yesterday we had a trail..because she is so thin she had very little white rice and her glucose was 8.We do eat very healthy and no dairy sugar or gluten.All of my life my mother had way more energy than me so its very difficult to see her like this..fragile and no energy If you have time and any advice it wil be greatly appreciated. So nice to see a fellow south African do so well. Again thanks so much. Lots of blessings Lizelle
Lizelle
Thanks for your kind words about my summits and interviews and being a fellow South African. I’m sorry to hear about your mom and her recent loss.
I think you are saying she is taking 100mg 5-HTP. Keep in mind 5-HTP can be stimulating for some folks if cortisol is high (something I consider when there are blood sugar fluctuations) and tyrosine can be stimulating too. Tyrosine is also contraindicated with Graves/overactive thyroid, which can cause heart palpitations and insomnia. It sounds like she may best be served by a functional medicine practitioner with the high blood sugar, high blood pressure and heart palpitations.
I’d also look at everything else that can impact sleep: low GABA, gut health, EMFs, low melatonin, infections (like bladder if someone is getting up to go to the toilet), medication side-effects etc
Hi, Trudy. I am one of those women who needs Tryptophan in the morning. I am still trying to figure out the correct dose. My depression comes out as anger, and the Tryptophan stops it in its tracks.
Can I take too much Tryptophan? I use 1000 milligrams during the day (2 times per day), then 1500 at bedtime. Seems it only works for 2-2 1/2 hours at a time during the day.
Thank you!
Hi Trudy,
my name is Michelle my son is autistic. His 16 years old. I watched your summit videos about gaba and tryptophan, I would like to start him on both one at a time. But his on Gabapentin 100mg and Zoloft 12.5 mg half of a 25mg tablet. Spoke to his neurologist and his on board . Thing is I’m worried about giving him Gaba and tryptophan while on his prescription ssri he said there wouldn’t be a problem being that the doses are relatively low.
He has a very low tolerance for meds and is suffering from anxiety, involuntary movements,panic attacks,aggression,mood swings,poor digestion,focus issues,worry, a lot of thinking, ocd tendencies, trouble falling to sleep and carb and sugar cravings late evening.he had a irritation on his scalp that caused his hair to get thin which has gone away since we started a gluten free diet. Any recommendations, please. Thank you
Michelle
I would also be concerned about the addition of tryptophan and GABA with a 16 year old who is on Gabapentin and Zoloft and has a low tolerance for meds. There is always the potential for serotonin syndrome with Zoloft and tryptophan/5-HTP. It’s also challenging to figure out which symptoms are being exacerbated by the meds and him being able to communicate how he is feeling. For example, involuntary movements are commonly caused by Gabapentin (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4052599/) and aggression can be caused by antidepressants. There is also little evidence for SSRI use in ASD https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/little-evidence-for-ssri-use-in-anxiety-and-compulsions-in-asd-my-interview-on-nourishing-hope-for-autism-summit/
Once you are able to trial the amino acids, these symptoms do suggest a strong possibility of low serotonin: anxiety, panic attacks, aggression, poor digestion, worry, a lot of thinking, ocd tendencies, trouble falling to sleep and carb and sugar cravings late evening. Mood swings may be triggered by low blood sugar. Focus issues may be related to low dopamine.
As I mention in the blog start with my book for a good understanding of the foundations of diet and more specifics on the amino acids.
Julie Matthews work with autism nutrition also comes highly recommended. Gluten-free is a great starting point and dairy/soy free is also often very beneficial too, as is looking into salicylates, oxalates, high histmine/high glutamate foods etc. Here is a paper she co-authored https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/nutritional-and-dietary-intervention-for-autism-spectrum-disorder-a-new-study/ Feel free to search the blog for additional information from Julie.
Hi Trudy,
I have been wanting to ask this question for a long time because I don’t know what to do.
After reading your book, I have had great results with both Tryptophan for my feelings of depression, anxiety and anger/irritability when I take it in the morning or lunch time at the latest.
But my symptoms are worst in the afternoon when my energy levels are running low and I have to get through the rest of the day/evening managing the needs of a child, partner, house hold and all the rest.
Unfortunately if I take Tryptophan after 1pm, latest 2pm, I can’t sleep!!! I lie in bed awake for hours until after midnight. I usually go to bed around 9pm.
Is there something else I could take to elp me?
Thank you!
Carolin
Super to hear you have had great results with tryptophan for depression, anxiety and anger/irritability when taken in the morning or lunch time.
What you report is unusual – doing well with tryptophan in the morning and yet not well in the afternoon. But since we are all unique this can happen. I’d consider a lower dose of tryptophan in the afternoon or possibly 5-HTP instead. It’s a matter of experimenting with different combinations and doses.
When I hear low energy levels I also think low catecholamines and would do a trial of tyrosine if there are other symptoms like low motivation, poor focus and curl-up-in-bed type depression. Taking tyrosine too late (after 3pm) can affect sleep so it’s a balancing act.
I’d also look at everything else that can impact sleep: low GABA, gut health, high cortisol, EMFs, low melatonin etc
Thank you very much Trudy!
I have tried the 5HTP, which has a ‘speed’ type effect on me. I sometimes take it in the morning when I suffer with depression and really low energy.
I’ll try the Tyrosine, as you suggested and also the GABA.
Hi I’ve been checking on this blog for a few weeks now. I’m hoping to be a success story to be free of anti depressants . I’m currently on 20mg escitalopram (max). I’ve been taking some tryptophan also during low or anxious days- no sign of any seretonin syndrome. Usually I pick back up and also taking a little inositol.
My question to anybody who can help is it possible to get off anti depressants without suffering or return of symptoms? My symptoms are so bad that there is no way I can afford for a return of them. My goal is to get to the lowest dose and going to use tryptophan at 1gram at night religiously even while on my medication. I think this seretonin syndrome would have happened by now because I’ve used tryptophan and 5htp while on max dose of escitalopram – just not everyday.
Trudy if my diet and lifestyle are good ( which they are , avid gym lover here) have you seen or got any clinical evidence that this is entirely possible ?
Also I live in the uk … what type of blood test can I pay for private to check all my vitamin , mineral and hormones? Is there such a thing? All I know is NHS blood test only check like thyroid and cholesterol levels etc .
Any recommendations would be great x much love to any fellow sufferers
Nick
As I’ve said on a question you posted on another blog, it is very possible to get off antidepressants. When someone is not a client I have them read this blog and work with and discuss with the prescribing doctor as there is always the risk of serotonin syndrome with SSRIs and tryptophan https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/taper-from-antidepressant-tryptophan-amino-acids/ A person doesn’t necessarily need high doses of tryptophan but the dose can shift during the taper which does need to be done really really slowly.
I have my clients get nutritionally stable BEFORE starting any medication taper (with their doctor’s approval of course) and this prevents many of the adverse effects. Someone who is a gym lover with a good diet and lifestyle has good start.
This blog covers the nutritional or functional testing I use with my clients, and what tests I’d run (and/or have my client’s doctor run) if everyone had unlimited funds. https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/nutritional-testing-find-cause-anxiety/
This blog may help identify possible root causes to be addressed https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/60-nutritional-biochemical-causes-of-anxiety/ (they can be the same for depression)
Thanks Trudy , I just had a look at the link and there are lots of testing. I’ve had bloods taken a good few times over the years but I think the GPs only do basic blood test here in the UK . I thought I’d share some info with you also below ..
My anxiety depression started over 10years ago. I was a daily cannabis user. I basically just stopped as I was planning on starting a family. It was this stopping that out the blue caused a major sudden breakdown like the flick of a switch. Same happened to my best friend also, So without doubt if anybody thinks cannabis is harmless think again!!
Trudy if I find a naturopathic doctor do they all look at these testing factors and rule out causes etc? I’ll probably do a google search to see what’s in my local area … I suspect it might cost me a lot of money also?
I notice you always mention to go gluten free and dairy free, is this explained in your book , I’ll try and get a copy ASAP. I have the mood cure not sure if it is similar –
Being on escitalopram isn’t too bad but it is difficult to get to sleep and makes you lethargic just wish I could find a natural cure with the aminos.
Also if anyone has a good explanation of brain fog and feeling dead inside my brain and mind would be great. Wishing everyone health and happiness x
Nick
Yes all the dietary foundations are explained in my book. Daily cannabis use and stopping it is a big red flag – CBD from hemp can often be very helpful to counter the THC effects. A careful detox can be beneficial too as much is stored in fat tissue.
Hi Trudy,
I was wondering what your take is on the claim that taking a single amino acid will deplete the other amino acids?
I am currently on 5-HTP – and having good results with this (minus some headaches it gives me) – but came across this study and now I’m unsure if I’m doing myself a disfavor in the long run by not supplementing with L-dopa as well.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3415362/
Would love to hear from you.
Thanks.
Darlen
I am not concerned about this at all. You may notice that this paper and others by this author have been retracted and his papers are the only ones stating this.
The response to the amino acids are the clue that they are needed. I would not have someone continue with 5-HTP if headaches are caused even when someone is having good results. Less may be better or we look at the actual product or we switch to tryptophan.
Hello! I am wondering about successful treatment of post partum anxiety and depression with Amina acids. I see your info on PMDD. Any thoughts on post partum? I’ve been taking tryptophan before bed and increased zinc per my naturopath for a few months now and it helps a little with sleep and maybe a little calmer during day but I’m still quite down. I wonder if I need to combine. Thank you! Any help would be appreciated. Been a few years and I could use some tips.
A.R.
Yes the amino acids can help in many situations including post partum anxiety and depression. When something works (tryptophan “helps a little with sleep and maybe a little calmer during day”) we capitalize on this and increase until we find the ideal dose.
With being quite down I’d look into low endorphins and low catecholamines too and with anxiety also look at low GABA. The best way to determine if someone may have neurotransmitters is to look at the symptoms, rate them on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being worst, do a trial of the respective amino acid and rate the symptoms again right afterwards (in the next 2 to 30 minutes). Here are the symptoms https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
High copper and low zinc is often an issue post partum too.
Hi Trudy,
I just wanted to share I’ve had good success combining 5htp early afternoon with tryptophan before bed. I’ve since stopped the 5htp as it was no longer needed. To answer another comment above. Yes, it is possible to manage depression & anxiety with nutrition Exercise, lifestyle and supplements. I do & haven’t taken antidepressants for years.
Also I’m currently taking Sam-e 200mg daily & It may be starting to be too stimulating. Am I able to take it every other day? I couldn’t find any literature on us. Thank you Trudy, for sharing your wealth of information & new findings!
Amy
Thanks for sharing your success and words of encouragement about being able to stop antidepressants. I don’t use SAMe very much with clients so I’m afraid I can’t comment specifically this but when B vitamins or omega-3s are we reduce them or take them earlier in the day or even stop as they may no longer be needed.
Hi Trudy,
I am new to your work and page and am very grateful to have found it! I have been taking Lexapro for nearly 14 years, as a bandaid of sorts, and for a variety of reasons have decided I want to taper off completely and work on my depression and anxiety from a more holistic, integrative approach. Under my psychiatrist’s care I have been slowly tapering down since January of this year. It has been a real struggle and I’ve needed to switch to the liquid form of the drug for an even slower taper. I’m down from 15mg to 4.5mg. I just bumped down from 5mg to 4.5mg a couple of weeks ago and even that small adjustment has really affected me with the typical SSRI withdrawal side effects: insomnia, anxiety, irritability, sadness/low mood, negative thoughts, anger/rage, etc. I’m curious about slowly and carefully introducing L-tryptophan to assist with my taper, particularly my insomnia. I know that you can’t recommend dosage and that I need to partner with my psychiatrist on this, but I wondered if you might share what L-Tryptophan dosage you’ve used with clients in the past to assist with an SSRI taper? I’m on such a low dose of Lexapro now (4.5mg) but do of course still want to be cautious of serotonin syndrome. I need to sleep and feel that working with amino acids may help. (Right now I’m doing Quicksilver’s liposomal melatonin and GABA-L Theanine formula before bed which helps put me to sleep but I always wake up in the middle of the night and can’t go back to sleep for hours.)
I do not eat dairy or gluten but am going to try cutting out caffeine and refined sugar. I also gave up alcohol for good 2 months ago. Thank you for any comments on what has worked with other patients tapering off of an SSRI! Very grateful to have found your website!
Warmly,
Alison
Alison
I was about to refer you to this blog – How do I taper from my antidepressant with tryptophan and can I safely use the other amino acids? https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/taper-from-antidepressant-tryptophan-amino-acids/ and I see you posted your question there so so will respond there
Thanks for your kind words and glad you’re here