Summer Bock, Master Fermentationist, was interviewed on the Anxiety Summit by host of the Anxiety Summit, Trudy Scott, Food Mood Expert and Nutritionist, author of The Antianxiety Food Solution.
Sauerkraut for Gut Healing and Reducing Anxiety
- Summer’s journey and recovery from allergies, gut problems, anxiety and panic attacks, and how fermented foods turned things round for her
- The good bacteria we get from fermented foods: psychobiotics and anxiety
- Sauerkraut: a “promising nutraceutical for the treatment of malnutrition-induced diseases” and how it helps with asthma, IBS and inflammatory bowel disease
- The 3 categories of fermented foods: Functional Ferments, Increased Assimilation Ferments and Primarily Preservation Ferments
- The history of kefir
- How to buy sauerkraut in the store
- How to make your own sauerkraut at home and why
Summer discovered that all the symptoms she was having (food and environmental allergies, anxiety and panic attacks, skin problems) were connected to her gut and that she needed probiotics.
With me being a herbalist and purist, I wanted to know how my ancestors did it. If I don’t have probiotics in my diet how do I get them? What is the whole food version of probiotics? It was when I discovered sauerkraut and kefir and all of these fermented foods and started including them in my diet, that’s when I started to see improvements in my health.
Sauerkraut is a whole food version of probiotics. The probiotics are one thing but raw (unpasteurized) sauerkraut also contains lactic acid which serves as a natural antibiotic.
I mentioned my season 2 interview with Dr. Ted Dinan, MD, PhD. Professor of Psychiatry at University College Cork: Microbes in the gut and psychobiotics as a potential treatment for anxiety and depression
we define a psychobiotic as a live organism that, when ingested in adequate amounts, produces a health benefit in patients suffering from psychiatric illness
This is Dr. Dinan’s most recent paper, published April this year: Gut Microbiota: The Conductor in the Orchestra of Immune-Neuroendocrine Communication
We discussed this paper at length: A MINI REVIEW ON THE MICROBIOCHEMICAL PROPERTIES OF SAUERKRAUT.
Healthy colons of humans contain some beneficial bacteria which feed on digestive wastes, thereby producing lactic acid. Without these beneficial bacteria, the digestive tracts become a thriving zone for pathogenic bacteria and yeasts, resulting in candidiasis. However, it is suggested that the consumption of lacto-fermented sauerkraut could help re-establish lactobacilli.
could be a promising nutraceutical for the treatment of malnutrition-induced diseases. Also, it could be suggested that the consumption of lacto-fermented sauerkraut could help reestablish lactobacilli-opportunistic infective agents equilibrium
lacto-fermented sauerkraut provides an array of lactobacilli probiotics, vitamin C, dietary folates, manganese and pyridoxine
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What if histamine intolerant, any suggestions
Mary Ross
We are all unique and unfortunately there is no one size fits all. If you don’t tolerate certain foods, don’t eat them, even if they appear to be nutrient-dense and healthy.
Do listen in to my interview with Yasmina, the low histamine chef. She has found a way to add back problem foods despite having issues with them.
Trudy
Great presentation …but I’m probably in the histamine intolerant group so appreciate the reference to Yasmina. Thanks Trudy!
Hi Cecile
Glad you enjoyed it! You’ll enjoy Yasmina’s interview. Nice to see you here tuning in! Great to see you at the Celiac meeting a few weeks back
Trudy
What are the names of the suggested store bought sauerkraut and what is the best type of cabbage to use?
Joanna
Bubbies is a California brand http://www.bubbies.com/sauerkraut but there are many. Check for them in the fridge at your local health store. The should be raw and contain only cabbage and salt.
If you’re making it yourself, buy organic cabbage and use sea salt.
Trudy
Bubbies was the one *not* to buy, because it is flash pasteurized. Their pickles are truly raw though.
Gillian
Thanks for catching that! I got mixed up! Buddies kraut is a no and Summer said this one is good – Farmhouse Culture http://farmhouseculture.com
It all depends on where you are located too. I just googled raw sauerkraut and this WI source came up http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/Organic-Raw-Sauerkraut-Plus-Veggie-Mix.htm (I have not checked them out yet)
And this one looks pretty good but not sure why the no-salt is such a great idea since sea salt is good: http://www.rejuvenative.com/products/salt-free-cabbage-and-dill-sauerkraut/
Trudy
Raw sauerkraut in the UK: https://www.theculturedcellar.co.uk/
Thanks Claire!
What is the protocol for taking kefir? With meals or in between meals?
Hi Beverly
I wouldn’t say there is a protocol and either way should be fine. What do you do?
Trudy
Hi Trudy,
I’ve tried taking it with and in between meals. This is with goat milk kefir but noticed that what seems like a hot flash occurs very soon afterwards. I am perimenopausal but it does seem like a coincidence when it happens every time.
Are there side effects to taking probiotics in the beginning as the gut flora is being re established?
Beverley
That would be a sign that it’s not something you can tolerate. What a pity! You may need to take probiotic supplements and/or prebiotics
Trudy
Panic attacks in the middle of the night are a classic sign of Obstructive
Sleep Apnea or Upper Airway Resistance Syndrome. Especially if you have a
nightmare of not being able to breathe, choking sensation, someone
strangling you– you heart racing and gasping for air. Your tongue is
blocking your airway. If you are unable to breathe through your nose at
night because of allergies, this can be the outcome. It is essential that
the diet be improved so that nose breathing can occur day and night. No
one in any of the summits is adressing this. Check out
DoctorStevenPark.com
And– read my 2009 article in WAPF’s Wise Traditions regarding why this is more likely to occur. It is on my website along with 9 pages on sleep apnea:
NancyCHenderson.com
Hi Nancy
Thanks for your very useful feedback. It’s so interesting when we learn about the physical causes of anxiety.
If I may I would like to make a slight revision for others who may read this and say this instead “Panic attacks in the middle of the night MAY BE a sign of Obstructive Sleep Apnea or Upper Airway Resistance Syndrome.” There are many possible causes of panic attacks in the middle of the night – some that I have seen with clients are low blood sugar, low GABA, low serotonin and even parasites.
But I will be adding this to my list of possible causes and look forward to learning more from you about this. Thanks for sharing
Trudy
No mention of Kombucha. Kombucha is big in Hawaii and Asia. Any comments on the health benefit of this?
Maria
We just didn’t get to it! I’m a big fan of kombucha as long as you don’t have issues with alcohol
Trudy
I’ve been “kefiring” for about 5 years with 2% milk and grains. It is SO EASY and the health benefits are amazing.
I use 2% milk without growth hormone because it is a reliably available product. Friends with whom I have shared my kefir “babies” have tried using raw milk, but it has never worked for them. Any idea why?
Wonderful Josie! Is there any reason why you use 2% and not whole milk? Hopefully it’s organic?
I ‘ll have Summer come and comment about the raw milk as I don’t know the answer
Trudy
I am trying to get the download for the sauerkraut recipe. All I get is check your email.
Hi Merry
There is sometimes a delay in getting the emails. I’d also check spam. If it doesn’t arrive please email support@everywomanover29.com and customer support will assist
Trudy
Sauerkraut questions-
*Whether homemade or store bought, what is the shelf life?
*Do you need to worry about making it incorrectly and growing mold? How do you know if there is mold and would you need to trash the entire batch if you do have it?
*What is the right environment? My home in Florida is warmish even with the air condition on.
Thank you so much!!
Joanne
I’m going to have Summer come and comment since she is the expert.
I’ll comment on the shelf-life question – a nutritionist colleague is doing an experiment and has had a batch going for a year. She is looking into getting it tested to see what good bacteria still remains. I’m not saying this is ideal but just sharing
Trudy
I have a couple of questions and a comment regarding preparation of cabbage for sauerkraut. Does Summer wash or rinse off her cabbage before slicing, etc? What about blemished or spotty outer leaves (or even inside) – peel off, trim away, or totally discard that head for fermentation use? Especially with organic, it is quite common where I live for me to find early signs of pending or developing mold growth, particularly around the stem and core, or leaf bases inside close to the core. That happened with home grown organic cabbages as well, fresh from the garden, when I actively gardened. I know what I do, but these are questions a newbie might have.
If someone doesn’t have easy access to organic produce, or it strains the budget, the Environmental Working Group’s (ewg dot org) “shopper’s guide to pesticides in produce” does place cabbage on the “Clean Fifteen” list. Second comment/observation is that if you are fermenting in glass, keep that jar in dark paper bags or covered with multiple towels, as exposure to light can kill off the organisms you seek to culture.
Isn’t it amazing how broadly applicable real food, prepared in simple and traditional ways, is! As an FYI, raw sauerkraut juice (actually run through a juicer, not just the brine) is an integral part of Dr. Johanna Budwig’s anti-cancer dietary protocol, and possibly part of the Gerson Therapy. [if an anti-cancer protocol is on your radar, consider joining the flaxseedoil2 yahoo group for accurate information, guidance, and support on the true, unadulterated protocol. Several sites only loosely adhere, to patient detriment. I’m only a member/reader, no financial interest, and nothing is sold there.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FlaxSeedOil2/info OR flaxseedoil2-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Trudy – is it OK to include this link? Anxiety’s so tightly intertwined with numerous other conditions, and there’s a lot of bogus info out there on this protocol. I’d hate for someone to be drawn into one of them with poor results. Delete or revise, as you see fit.]
Thanks for sharing the EWG clean 15 and the glass jar tip and the cabbage juice.
I’ll have Summer come and comment about the mold
Finally you are doing some damage control from your first summit! All
those fermented foods, increase in folate foods, higher intake of good
fats and extra supplements at your advice were the wrong direction for
me:
I have a histamine intolerance, am an overmethylator, and have a
genetic inability to process fats. It wasn’t until I found out about Wm
Walsh’s work and the Walsh Protocol that it all came together. Thank you for finally paying homage to him– the foundation of your work– and for Ben Lynch finally
addressing this as well. You should be advertising his book “Nutrient Power– Heal Your Biochemistry and heal Your Brain”– and getting people to buy it.
The only thing that held me together on your advice was a serious detox
protocol to remove excess Hm’s– which stripped my body of nutrients that I needed to heal a foot injury.
The message of Dr Walsh’s work needs to made loud and clear– why don’t
you donate your some of your profits to his non profit this time around– The Walsh Research Institute? http://www.walshinstitute.org
He is missing from your book and from Ben Lynch’s site as well.
Hi Nancy
I’m really pleased you are finding answers and have found Dr Walsh’s work and protocols to be so helpful for you.
I am really sorry if something you heard on the first summit caused you problems. We are all unique and there is no one size fits all and there are many many contributing factors to anxiety (I’ll be covering 65+ in the final call).
I stand by everything we covered in previous summits and I really don’t feel any of this is damage control – except for you (and very likely some others too) and I acknowledge that. Many people have seen fabulous results implementing info from the summits and my book.
I feel Dr. Walsh’s work is wonderful and many people get the great results you have experienced and some don’t. I’d love to have Dr. Walsh and Dr Ben Lynch sit down and hash things out and meld their combined expertise and wisdome. We did start this discussion in my interview with Dr Lynch. I’d love to include Yasmina since her histamine food work is not discussed by Dr. Walsh. I also understand that Dr. Walsh doesn’t feel MTHFR and other gene defects are of relevance .
I hope to have Dr. Walsh on a future summit to share his work and book and I know you’ll be cheering for him.
I feel we all still have much to learn from each other. There is no one correct approach for any of this. Doing these summits is a way to get people talking, asking questions and sharing ideas so I appreciate you sharing your journey
Trudy
I was very interested in Summer’s 3-part video class for $28 on making fermented foods but when I signed up and attempted to pay, it was actually $56 and I saw no promo code to enter for $28. Are these videos something you can download and watch at your own pace? I work odd hours and must do these types of things in increments in my own time. Thanks in advance so much for more info.
Hi Cindy
Sorry about this – we’ll have to check on the pricing of this for you. Please email support@everywomanover29.com so we can follow up via email (this will help me a ton as I have quite a bit of follow-up!)
I believe you can watch at your own pace
You’re so welcome! Glad you’re interested in this
Trudy
Is it safe for people with thyroid issues who are advised to stay off crusiiffers to eat sourcrout?
Hi Tami
Small amounts of sauerkraut (cabbage is a cruciferous vegetable for folks who may not know) seems to be fine. If you are concerned, I’d discuss with your nutritionist and have your doctor monitor your thyroid results
Trudy
What can I do if I can’t use cabbage or leafy vegetables? It presents an issue as I keep kosher and checking the leaves is a very time intensive issue. I would like to sell fermented vegetables in my area.
Hi All:
Is it possible to have an allergic reaction to kefir or fermented products? After about a week of store bought kefir, I started to break out in a rash on my hands and feet. I’m not sure if it is related or not? Perhaps the yeast? My doctor said it may have to do more with the strawberry flavoring then the kefir. But would like to know.
Scott
Absolutely! It could be many factors – the dairy itself or the strawberry flavoring. I’d look at other ingredients and avoid processed foods in general. A good way to know for sure is to stop and then add it back and see what happens
Trudy
Hi there,
I love fermented foods so quite saddened that they can interact with a few things.
Summer mentions that plantarum can help with people with histamine issues though but what about a normal probiotic. Could they tolerate that?
In your category of functional – could that also include kombucha as I do lots of that and I would love Summer’s thoughts on Kombucha.
Summer also mentioned that pickles can have similar benefits as sauerkraut as long as vinegar is not added. Why is that? It is just that if I have no kombucha starter left I was actually advised to add vinegar?
Thanks so much,
Susan