Yasmina Ykelenstam, the Low Histamine Chef, was interviewed by host of the Anxiety Summit, Trudy Scott, Food Mood Expert and Nutritionist, author of The Antianxiety Food Solution.
Histamine-containing Foods: their Role in Anxiety, Depression and Schizophrenia
- What is histamine
- Yasmina’s anxiety story and how she discovered the histamine connection
- How histamine can cause symptoms of anxiety: high-histamine foods, low levels of DAO or HMNT enzyme, neuroinflammation
- The histamine and depression/ schizophrenia connection and possible links to pyroluria
- Histamine disorders: allergies, histamine intolerance and mast cell activation
- The difficulty in diagnosing a histamine intolerance
- High histamine foods and factors that cause histamine to be released
- High histamine foods with anti-inflammatory properties
- How to eat when you have a histamine intolerance: the “histamine-balanced” diet
- Histamine interaction with psych medications such as valium and why this can be problematic for many doing the Ashton benzodiazepine taper protocol
- Histamine interaction with other medications and dyes in medications
Here are some snippets from our interview:
Histamine is the gluten of the intolerance world
Histamine is a neurotransmitter and plays a role in mood disorders
Here is one of the recent studies I mentioned: The human histaminergic system in neuropsychiatric disorders
The histaminergic system is involved in basic physiological functions, such as the sleep-wake cycle, energy and endocrine homeostasis, sensory and motor functions, cognition, and attention, which are all severely affected in neuropsychiatric disorders.
Here, we present recent postmortem findings on the alterations in this system in neuropsychiatric disorders, including Parkinson’s disease (PD), Alzheimer’s disease (AD), Huntington’s disease (HD), depression, and narcolepsy.
Histamine can cause symptoms of anxiety:
- Increased heart rate and blood pressure
- Shortness of breath and gasping for air
- Pounding heart
- Dizziness and feeling faint
Here is the complete list of Histamine Intolerance Symptoms on Yasmina’s blog
Yasmina’s blog is a wealth of information. Here is a post on The Histamine Mast Cell Depression link
According to a growing body of research, by Dr Theoharides and others, shows that pro-inflammatory brain cytokines are implicated in depression. In English: mast cells cause inflammation in the brain, which causes depression.
In short, neuroinflammation, involving mast cells, can manifest in many different ways. In some people it can cause disorders involving a loss of speech (autism) or psych disorders (schizophrenia, bipolar, major depression), or demyelination disorders like Multiple Sclerosis
We didn’t discuss this paper, but I’m sharing it because it’s the most recent study by Dr. Theoharides: Mast cells, brain inflammation and autism
brain MCs [mast cells] may be involved in the pathogenesis of “brain fog,” headaches, and autism spectrum disorders (ASDs), which worsen with stress
I did bring up “whole blood histamine” testing and the work of Dr. Carl Pfeiffer and Dr. William Walsh but we’ll have to take a deeper dive into this in a subsequent interview. You can read more about this here: Methylation and anxiety: histadelia and histapenia
We did also briefly talk about this in my interview with Dr Ben Lynch: How Methylfolate can make you Feel Worse and even Cause Anxiety, and What to do about it
Our discussion around the benzodiazapines was fascinating and very concerning:
Many people doing a benzo taper are often switched to Valium which is a DAO blocker and further prevents histamine from being removed from the body
Dye are also triggers…the pink Xanax can be problematic
In general I have real concerns with benzodiazapines being prescribed and you can check out my interview with Dr. Katherine Pittman on season 1 of the Anxiety Summit here: Benzodiazepines Risks vs Benefits
Be sure to get Yasmina’s ebook Taster of My High Nutrient Diet
If you are not already registered for the Anxiety Summit you can get live access to the speakers of the day here: www.theAnxietySummit.com
Missed this interview or can’t listen live? Or want this and the other great interviews for your learning library? Purchase the MP3s or MP3s + transcripts and listen when it suits you.
You can find your purchasing options here: Anxiety Summit Season 1, Anxiety Summit Season 2, and Anxiety Summit Season 3.
Super interesting interview. What about using NAET for those histamine allergies? Helped our family.
Shirley
Thanks! Did NAET help specifically for histamine-containing foods?
Trudy
My sons and I were going to do (and have done) the GAPS diet so we got treated specifically for histamine foods. Note: we had done the full treatment of NAET about 6 years ago which was amazing for all. One son had difficulty passing the histamine tx and had to do it 3x. As far as I know, it did help. I am curious and want to get checked again to make sure the 3 of us are still clear since treated about 1 year ago.
Hi love, glad it worked for you! Please be aware it should not be used for severe reactions.
For 4 years my son has had anxiety, I know it’s a big correlation with weather & food, raining days anxiety up , etc
Could you please type the name of the medication than crosses the brain barrier & the one that makes the discovery of Prozac ? You talk about them at 30 ins , you mention 3 names .
Thank you very much , Carmen
Carmen
Please clarify your question
Trudy
Thank you so much to Trudy and Yasmina! This topic needs more mainstream recognition, and your interview was great.
What was that website which lists histamine releasing medications? I looked on Yasmina’s site, but didn’t see that. Thanks.
Hi Sofie – yes I agree! And having Yasmina share on the summit is part of the plan! Glad you enjoyed it
I can’t make it out from my notes so I’ll ask her to come and comment
Trudy
Thanks love! It’s http://www.histaminintoleranz.ch/en/downloads.html
This interview has been my favorite so far in this summit. It has been so enlightening and easy to follow. Thank you so much Yasmina for sharing this information.
Wonderful Jill! I really enjoyed it too! Do you have issues with histamine-containing foods?
I do not have a problem with histamine foods but all of the symptoms of anxiety that Yasmina had as a child seems to be exactly what my niece has been suffering from for two years. She has been through multiple tests and still hasn’t been diagnosed with anything specific. There are many of the symptoms that seem to run in the family so I will be offering suggestions to her parents based on Yasmina’s experiences because it is something I haven’t heard about before.
That’s very kind of you to say love! Hoping the information helps your niece.
Yasmin mentioned low histamine (histapenia) but I didn’t hear how to deal with that. Is having low histamine the opposite and you would need to eat histamine-containing foods or would one still need to avoid high histamine foods? I have been told I’m an under-methylator because of the low histamine (although after listening to Dr. Lynch I realize that is not a good indicator). Thank you!
Shellie
I am trying to figure out the low histamine/histapenia connection to all of this and so don’t have an answer for you yet
Trudy
Thank you for checking, Trudy!
Hi love, because histamine is already found in the body it is really difficult to have low histamine but it is possible. I have heard, anecdotally, of men with sexual dysfunction using a high histamine diet to help. I would do it in a super high nutrient way, just like my low histamine version, but always check with a doctor. I do not speak of histapenia though, it is not something I have researched. My work deals with histamine intolerance (high plasma histamine and low DAO, genetic markers indicating low HNMT) and mast cell activation disorders (high 24 hour urine n-methylhistamine and mast cell degranulation).
Shellie
As Yasmina says she is not speaking of histapenia which is found by testing whole blood histamine. My link above in the blog has some info on this
The histapenia/histadelia doctors/practitioners do not have any dietary recommendations but I’m thinking this would be a good addition
First we need to see if the whole blood histamine results correlate with any of the testing that Yamsina talks about
Trudy
Trudy
Hi Trudy- I am wondering if food allergies fall under this category? I too tried the gaps diet and my body couldn’t tolerate it. My main problem is that food causes a reaction to my upper digestive tract. I also took a fermented probiotic for weeks and really affected my ears and I now have tinnitus. I was wondering what is the name of the London doctor it wasn’t clear on the audio. Also where do we redeem the copy of the 101 book she said she would provide. Would really like to understand more. Thanks so much for this fascinating summit. I’ve taken a lot of notes. Everything is so interesting and it helps so much to be able to connect the dots. Thai you so much!
Glad you enjoyed this and the other interviews
We don’t yet have edited transcripts back yet so I’ll ask Yasmina to come and respond about the London doctor
The gift link is in the blog above
Trudy
Hi love, Dr. Senviratne is in London. Food allergies cause histamine release which can contribute to overall histamine, IgE and inflammation levels, causing your histamine/inflammation bucket to spill over faster.
During the interview, you mentioned two doctors in the US- immunology doctors who you heard of… One in Boston and one in White Plains, NY. Can you give the names of the doctors again?
Thank you,
Rachael
We don’t yet have edited transcripts back yet so I’ll ask Yasmina to come and respond
Trudy
Hi love, they’re Dr. Anne Maitland in White Plains and Dr. Mariana Castells in Boston.
Can you list again, please, what tests she recommended? Thanks!
We don’t yet have edited transcripts back yet so I’ll ask Yasmina to come and respond
Trudy
Hiya, you’ll find all tests here: http://thelowhistaminechef.com/diagnosing-histamine-disorders/
Trudy,
We were treated for Histamine before starting the GAPS diet. Personally, I don’t seem to notice any changes w/my anxiety levels since following the GAPS diet and having been treated for histamine. Would be interesting to see if we are still clear on histamine.
Shirley
I don’t know if you have a question for me or what this means “we were treated for histamine”?
Please clarify
Trudy
If you’re on GAPS it’s unlikely you’re following a low histamine diet (unless you’ve made incredible modifications). Most of the people who end up on my website reach there after their histamine issues becoming far worse on GAPS. I also don’t understand how you were treated for histamine?
Awesome presentation – thank you for sharing this important information. I am very eager to hear more about the soup you are eating, it sounds like that is helpful in clearing histamine overload? Will the recipe be available in the free gift?
Thanks again.
I’ll ask Yasmina to come and respond
Hi love, no soup recipes in the gift but you can find recipes on my site http://www.thelowhistaminechef.com/category/recipes
The way I eat isn’t a medical treatment, it’s a way of eating that hopefully gives us the nutrients needed to fight inflammation and cancer overall.
And thanks for listening!
Thanks for this interesting presentation. I am wondering if one suffers from the mast cell condition if the symptoms present in childhood or if they can present later in life? Also, could one tolerate GAPS diet for a time and then go off and then later present with the mast cell condition?
Thanks!
I’m going to ask Yasmina to come and comment
Hi love, it can present at any time. I’m finding more and more women coming into it in their mid 30s or during menopause. Yes, you can become reactive to any diet at any time.
That interesting Yasmina – more and more women coming into it in their mid 30s or during menopause
(thanks for all your comments here btw)
Hi Trudy,
In Yasmin’s free book she references a low histamine guide next to the photo of the artichoke and bean recipe. The link goes to her book page but I am not sure which book it is listed in. Thanks!
I’m not sure what the question is? please clarify
Hi love, it’s in the anti-cookbook but you can find loads of recipes on my blog.
Trudy, In past year have gone off number of meds (wellbutrin, triazalom, lamictal, lyrica to name a few) treating body with healthy foods, good probiotic, supplementing and spectracell testing watching micronutrients. The last drug I went off of was seroquel. Since going off I have begun to get GI sxs of right upper quadrant pain radiating into shoulder and right side of neck, nausea, face/neck sweating and flushing, chest palps and most recently reflux type pains and constipation. All have had scopes/labs/ultrasound/scans all showing within normal range. Most of my sxs are at night about an hour after falling asleep or following meal OR going too long without a meal. I am normal weight and a runner who is never sick. I wonder if there could be any correlation of going off these and onset of sxs or if you think it is likely not related. I did have an elevated 5 HIAA/serotonin but 24 hr urine retest was within an acceptable range. My integrative PCP and gastro are out of ideas and I am feeling ok one minute and absolutely miserable the next. Any thoughts?
Karin
Medications like Seroquel can cause many side-effects when you quit them, especially when a slow taper is not done (http://www.goodtherapy.org/drugs/seroquel-quetiapine.html#). The elevated 5HIAA makes me suspect this may be an issue.
Your comments about having symptoms after meal make me think some kind of food sensitivity. And too long without a meal – low blood sugar. So I’d look into those too.
Trudy
Love, what most people miss is that many of us may be prescribed these psych meds because our physical symptoms are misdiagnosed. I have been on all the meds you have. The exact same ones. Yes, when we come off them the resurgence of symptoms is mistaken for, or worsens, withdrawal. The right quadrant pain you describe is classic histamine/mast cell! I have yet to find the explanation but nearly every single one of us presents with it and has the gallbladder yanked out but the pain persists. What I do know is that liver enzymes are often elevated in people with these issues so I speculate it may be related to that (though we do not present with liver damage generally). And the symptoms falling asleep after eating, blood sugar issues, constipation, all classic mast cell/histamine. I would check out the diagnosis page on my site and try to get a doctor to work with. I also run a couple of facebook groups (histamine intolerance closed for privacy). Hope you get some relief – the symptoms are the ones I dealt with.
But please understand, I’m not saying there’s never an underlying psych issue.
Hi Trudy,
Thanks for another excellent interview. I am so fascinated by the possible connection between pyroluria and histamine rx through vitamin B6. If we need B6 to make the histamine degrading enzyme DAO, then people with chronically low B6 could have chronic expressions of histamine sensitivity?
Hi Julie
Glad you enjoyed it!
From the work of Carl Pfeiffer, we do know that many pyrolurics have histamine imbalances – either high histamine/histadela or low histamine/histapenia and I’ll be looking more into the B6-histamine degrading DAO enzyme connection and learning how Yasmina’s work inter-relates with this and pyroluria. We clearly have many connections. As Yasmina shares, this histamine intolerance affects schizophrenics and the initial work on pyroluria was done with schizophrenics.
I’d love to hear more about your interest in this area? Do you have pyroluria and either high histamine/histadela or low histamine/histapenia? I have pyroluria and low histamine/histapenia.
Trudy
Thank you for the kind reply, and it is really so interesting. Because I struggle to keep my magnesium levels up, when I saw that both B6 and magnesium are used to make DAO, it really caught my attention.
A few years ago I tested negative for pyroluria, but after reading your book last fall I tried the zinc and B6 regimen and it helped me so much to feel better. Now I am reluctant to go off the zinc (and B6) in order to test again.
I have not done any testing for histamine reactions, just know that I am having reactions that seem histamine related. I use the sauna for detox, and I have become very aware of how it is draining on my energies and reserves, and how similar the feeling is to an allergic or histamine response. So my knowledge is limited to this experience, really, though I hope to learn more.
It was really great to hear you and Yasmina talk about these things because it was very encouraging. Thanks again!
Julie
Glad you enjoyed my interview with Yasmina. I’m not sure why you want to go off the zinc and B6 if it helps you feel so much better.
Trudy
Love, eek no sauna unless a doctor prescribes it! Extremes of temperature and stress on the body cause massive histamine release. No wonder you’re feeling like an allergic reaction…I never supplement unless tests reveal I am low in something. I’m in the minority I know! Please get yourself to someone who can test your plasma histamine or preferably n-methylhistamine and other inflammatory markers. The tests are linked to on my site.
Thank you for such an amazing interview with Yasmina, Trudy! Yasmina mentioned her 14 ingredient anti-inflammatory / histamine-calming soup. I’d love to know what the ingredients are. Any way Yasmina could share the recipe with summit attendees? Or is it in one of her cookbooks (if so, which one)? Thanks again for such a brilliant interview and an amazing summit overall.
Hi Tara
I’ll see if we can get access to it for you. I’m so pleased your enjoyed our interview! I certainly did!
Trudy
Hi love, it’s in the anti-cookbook and the anti-detox books. There are other soups on my site, look in the recipes section xo
Hi Trudy,
The low histamine guide is listed in the free gift (book that she gave us). It is listed next to the photo of the artichoke and bean dip recipe. When you click on the link for the histamine guide it takes you to her shopping site for her books. I do not see the low histamine guide there. I don’t know if it is in one of her books or if the link is incorrect. Thanks!
I’m going to ask Yasmina to come and comment
Hi love, in the gift you have, the text of the photo says that it’s in the anti-cookbook which is in my shop xo
As a lifelong migraine sufferer, I wonder if you have any thoughts on this Spanish study on the use of DAO supplements to treat migraines.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/811920
I’d like to know if one can restore their own production of DAO enzyme.
I never have heartburn, hives, or some of the other common histamine intolerance signs, so I’ve never acted on trying a low histamine diet to see if it could reduce the frequency or severity of my migraines. Do you feel that it still could be the underlying issue? I’m also now thinking about Toxoplasmosis as an underlying cause of migraines as stated in Ann Louise Gittleman’s free ebook as part of this summit… so many things to consider and try, my head is spinning a bit.
Any thoughts, Trudy or Yasmina?
Beth
I can’t see this link but would consider a low histamine diet trial – it on the list of symptoms.
Tyramines are also an issue with migraines. Also consider doing a RBC magnesium test – Joe Tatta shared some good research on migraines and magnesium (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-anxiety-musculoskeletal-pain/).
Migraines can have many possible causes – hormone imbalances is another to consider
Trudy
Further to my comment above, I know that Chris Kresser has talked about the fact that histamine, tyramine and arginine intolerance is the first thing he explores with migraine patients, and he has them go on a diet low in these amines. He has also created an herbal formula containing foods that help prevent the histamine response and that are anti-inflammatory and have beneficial effects on the vascular system.
http://chriskresser.com/coq10-vaccination-and-natural-treatment-for-migraines
http://chriskresser.com/headaches-hives-and-heartburn-could-histamine-be-the-cause?
Do you know about this, and do you have a similar product or recommendation?
I’d be grateful for your thoughts.
I am not familiar with these blogs but love the work Chris Kresser does
Regarding Yasmina Ykelsnatam’s info about valium being the most undesirable benzodiazepan to use. Is it because it blocks Diamin Oxidase (DAO) which affects your histamiine release from the body? Otherwise, why is valium so much worse than other benzos. This is very important to me …thank you.
I emailed her but did not receive a response.
Stephanie
That is my understanding – so if you have histamine issues this one could be more of an issue than others
Do you have any advice for getting off GastroCrom? Every time I attempt it, I last about a week and have a major mast cell “attack”. I have MCAS along with HyperPOTS and, the trilogy, EDS along with it. Mayo docs in AZ are treating those of us with these presentations for MCAS and people I’ve talked with – find it has helped. I’m trying quercetin but it doesn’t seem to be doing as well as the GastroCrom. (I recently found out GastroCrom is a mild calcium channel blocker. May be why it’s helping so much with the higher blood pressures that many with HyperPOTS has.) But, it’s also very expensive. I would love to find an alternative. I find I need an Allegra and 1/2 Zantac or I have major issues. Becoming a lowfat, Wholefoods, Vegan has made major life improvements for me.
I really enjoyed the interview and always look forward to getting your blogs.
Issie
Thank you so much for doing this interview. I have suspected a mast cell disorder in my son who has been diagnosed with POTS. The only medication that had any affect on the tachycardia was Gastrocrom and nausea was somewhat relieved by Benadryl, but an immunologist didn’t want to explore this because “mast cell disorders are very rare” and it was unlikely. He ran the tests that were mentioned and of course the kid tested 100% healthy, and I was sent on my way as a crazy lady with a bizarre theory. I plan to explore the leads that were provided as my son is still sick after 14 years, and now totally disabled. Thank you for touching on something that almost never comes up on any health summits, and for getting someone so knowledgeable and articulate to discuss it.
I tried the histiminintoleranz website, but it appeared to require membership – a user name and password to download information. I was a little confused as to whether there were membership costs.
Sharon – yes I just saw that myself
Thanks so much, Trudy, the Summit was great!
Yasmina, I loved the interview, thanks so much, and it helps a lot to have some answers to the many doubts we have when we are dealing with things on our own. I realized how many “histamine foods” I react to, and would like to know more so I can be sure. My first question is if you can send, or direct me to, a more complete list of food which could provoke reactions so I can do my elimination testing. I seem to react to so many things which are not on the basic list, and keep wondering if it is histamine. Still looking for the cause, and also avoid gluten.
The other thing would be the second step, to focus on how to substitute. I am sure there are many answers in your cookbooks, but if there is any other information I´d appreciate it. Histamine reactions “run in the family”, as both my sister and I have it, and my mom has had it all her life. To the point where it has become an obsession of “not eating the wrong things”, which makes life very complicated. My sister and I want to avoid becoming like that, and also be able to help my mom focus on other possible solutions. I love your attitude, about moving forward with your life instead of with your sickness, which I totally agree with.
I am Dutch, live in Brazil, am trying to find my way around in finding organic and other good options, and am also dealing with thyroid issues and have recently discovered thyroid nodules.
Thanks again, looking forward to your reply and any other recommendations,
Nicole
Dear Trudy and Yasmina,
Thank you so much for a really interesting interview and great summit! Really good.
I want to have some tests done, I live in the UK, so will see if I can go to the Dr in London.
I have seen so many doctors (Immunological consultant – only found low VIt D and high ALT no allergies found, consultant who looked at my bowel and took biopsies – gave me all clear and said I had IBS, tear duct consultants – I have a blocked tear duct and can’t get it to clear. I get tears and milky or yellow ‘gunk’ coming out, anti biotics made it worse and nothing has helped, could this be linked to histamine or mast cell? They want to operate, but I don’t want that so don’t know what to do.
We have many symptoms in the family and mum has been told she has histamine intolerance. All doctors say we are generally healthy and can’t find anything, yet on a very ‘healthy’ diet I get very unwell and react to high histamine foods.
Can you suggest what I should look for in the way of tests based on my symptoms (get drained of energy when eat certain foods like eggs, nuts, pumpkin seeds.., don’t think I absorb food well, blocked tear duct, white spots on my face that are hard to get out and when I do they are quite hard, abdominal pain most of the time…) and have you ever seen a tear duct connection?
Thank you very much for your help,
Anita
Anita
Glad you enjoyed it and sorry to hear about your issues – Yasmina should be checking back to comment
Have you noticed if worse some days? (what did you do where go, what eat…keep notes). Have thought mine were from too much computer and stress (learning to deal better with “stuff” helps). Mine might be from Oxalates and histamines, have very slowly lowered high oxalate foods. The grit is so sharp cuts edge of eyelids. Wish Dr could test stuff from eye as just reminded me of stuff leaked from Mothers fingertips they tested as calcium.
Keeping a food log is very useful
Hi Trudy
Thank you for your kind message and thank you, I also look forward to reading Yasmina’s reply.
Best wishes,
Anita
Noticed mention of oxalates on part of the talk. The recipes seem some high oxalates, are you able to eat them now?
Does it matter if we are diagnosed , if MCAS or mastocystosis or HI? Just figured had to deal with it by finding foods, lifstyle….
Recall walking across a parking lot with a load of groceries on a hot day and feeling like prickles were on my face/arms…, and soon as decided to slow down and enjoy, most of the symptoms disappeared. Now if the brain fog,muscle weakness would also!!
Was interesting from the sauerkraut lady that well fermented reduced in histamines, did it change bacteria in the culture wonder.
ferment person
Have noticed most helpful for reactions to histamines for me seem to be onions,ginger, cucumbers(dont like them though). Wondered if most reactions were do to cytokines &or leukotrines for me.
Read of a few people having good results with histadine, have you tried it? Be nice to know what guideline of types of people it works for!
Strange thing, last month really wanted to try blue cheese,so tried Gargonzola and no reactions, actually felt better. Would like to rid constipation now but mostly get my bones stronger and… Found accupressure from a book sometimes helpful also. Thank you for info and inspiration!
Hi. Can you please link me to the study that shows valium blocks DAO?
Thanks
Tony
I checked with Yasmina and she referred me to the Swiss Interest Group Histamine Intolerance (SIGHI) site and this article/list of medications http://www.histaminintoleranz.ch/en/therapy_medicaments.html It appears the reference is in German but if you get access to the paper you could use google translate
I have read that amino acids raise histamine levels. I have histamine issues and am Carnivore due to SIBO and Candida Overgrowth along with Oxalate Toxicity. Therefore, of course, I have anxiety and leaky gut. I know meat, especially beef, contain good levels of amino acids. I’m concerned about adding more amino acids due to the histamine levels. Any info on this?
Angela
Please share the source of this – amino acids raising histamine