Bea shared her collagen experience and insights on one of the collagen blogs:
I discovered the correlation between terrible anxiety and collagen myself several years ago! Couldn’t find any data about it then so just assumed I was a weirdo. But then my 26 yr old daughter started having terrible panic attacks. And bam! She too had started a collagen supplement! So I realized at least 2 ladies have this trouble! Got me to think about how many women seek anti-aging help with collagen and then also end up on prescriptions to help calm terrible anxiety without seeing the connection. Practitioners don’t seem to know about this. But every vitamin shop I visit hears from me on the anxiety/collagen connection. Perhaps grassroots word of mouth will help others eventually.
And yesssss… for me, bone broth is equally horrible!! Even if it is simmered for only 30 mins.
Thank you for explaining, Trudy!! How fascinating to learn it’s the drop in serotonin! I’ve never tried Tryptophan… just a bit nervous. But I think it’s time. I sure need the bone broth for my waning gut health. And I’m weary of ruminating thoughts lately! Thank you immensely for shining a needed light on how these amino acids help! I only wish I could share lunch with you and pass along my grateful hug!
God bless you, Trudy!
I’m so glad Dea found this correlation for herself and her daughter! Collagen use is on the rise and there is little awareness about these effects on serotonin levels in susceptible individuals. Read on for many of the anti-aging benefits of collagen, more information about tryptophan depletion studies, another similar story, other possible causes, and other blog resources on this topic.
Collagen use as we age: for skin, joints and bone health
Her comment about an increase in collagen use for anti-aging is so true. This 2023 paper, Collagen supplementation in skin and orthopedic diseases: A review of the literature, discusses the many age-related benefits of collagen:
hydrolyzed collagen supplementation promotes skin changes, such as decreased wrinkle formation; increased skin elasticity; increased hydration; increased collagen content, density, and synthesis, which are factors closely associated with aging-related skin damage.
Regarding orthopedic changes, collagen supplementation increases bone strength, density, and mass; improves joint stiffness/mobility, and functionality; and reduces pain. These aspects are associated with bone loss due to aging and damage caused by strenuous physical activity.
This paper mentions these aspects about collagen, that it’s low in tryptophan and that it is not a complete protein i.e. it’s a low biological value protein:
- Notably, collagen is a low-tryptophan protein, an essential amino acid for humans.
- Collagen is a source of conditionally essential amino acids (glycine and proline), which are important in some physiological situations.
- Collagen is a low biological value protein, since its amino acid composition is poor in essential amino acids. However, it has a positive intrinsic value because its amino acid composition is equivalent to that of human connective tissue.
This supports what we have learned from acute tryptophan depletion studies causing low serotonin.
Tryptophan-depletion studies to study the relationship between low serotonin and depression
Here is my first blog explaining acute tryptophan depletion studies (published in 2017) – Collagen and gelatin lower serotonin: does this increase your anxiety and depression?.
Tryptophan-depletion studies have been done for years, as a way to study the relationship between low serotonin and depression. Often a tryptophan-deficient amino acid mixture is used for this purpose. More recently, collagen and gelatin are being used.
Collagen and gelatin are an excellent source of these amino acids: proline, glycine, glutamine and arginine, but they do not contain the amino acid tryptophan.
This paper, Pharmacokinetics of acute tryptophan depletion using a gelatin-based protein in male and female Wistar rats summarizes what we find in a number of studies that use gelatin for the purpose of lowering serotonin levels, in order to study the relationship between serotonin and behavior:
The essential amino acid tryptophan is the precursor of the neurotransmitter serotonin. By depleting the body of tryptophan, brain tryptophan and serotonin levels are temporarily reduced. In this paper, several experiments are described in which dose and treatment effects of acute tryptophan depletion (ATD) using a gelatin-based protein-carbohydrate mixture were studied in male and female Wistar rats.
I encourage you to read the above blog to learn about who may be more susceptible to these effects.
I also share my personal experience with collagen consumption and can totally relate to Bea’s story and what clients and those in my community have shared.
Toni used collagen for 8 months – anxiety and panic attacks are off the charts
Toni experienced something similar:
I’ve been using Organic collagen for about 8 months now… love the hair and skin results. My tummy felt better at first but not currently. My anxiety and panic attacks are off the charts: panic attacks, heart racing, sweating, brain fog. I want to escape – like fight or flight. Definitely obsessing and fears. Memory difficulty. I have an upcoming GI appointment to check for Candida /SIBO… but I had no idea this could add to my anxiety. I’ll be looking forward to more information, Seriously.
And a few weeks after stopping the collagen she shared this:
I stopped using collagen. Since then, my anxiety and panic have decreased by less than half. Mild in comparison. I’m definitely taking a long break.
Instead of stopping collagen altogether, my advice is to figure out if low serotonin is the cause and address this with tryptophan or 5-HTP so collagen can be used for its many anti-aging and health benefits.
Is their anxiety due to reduced serotonin or histamine, glutamate or oxalate issues
Keep in mind tryptophan will help and allow collagen, gelatin and broth to be consumed without the increase in anxiety and panic attacks (and sleep issues) only if it is due to low serotonin.
Presumably both Dea and her daughter have other low serotonin symptoms – in addition to anxiety and panic attacks – such as sleep issues, worry, fears, afternoon/evening cravings etc (here is the list of symptoms). As you can see from Toni’s feedback (above), she does have many low serotonin symptoms.
A trial of tryptophan and symptom reduction (initially until the ideal dose is found) will confirm symptoms are related to low serotonin very quickly. This will also help Dea with her nervousness and ruminating thoughts, help her daughter ease the feelings of panic and help Toni too.
It’s also often helpful to also rule out histamine, glutamate and oxalate issues from collagen, gelatin and broth intake – as all of these factors can contribute to an increase in anxiousness too.
Additional blog posts on the topic of collagen
In case you are new to these potential issues, here are additional blog posts on the topic:
- Collagen causes anxiety and sleep problems for some people. I would never have connected the dots but apparently I am one of those people
- I have osteoporosis – within a week of starting collagen I experienced profound insomnia, was much more anxious and had tons of worrying thoughts
- Collagen causes increased anxiety, low mood, irritability, insomnia, gut issues and an itchy skin: some questions and my answers
- Gelatin triggers Enid’s anxiety in 2 weeks but also lowers her high blood sugar
- Collagen Can Cause Anxiety and Insomnia with Trudy Scott: The Anxiety Summit 5
If you are new to this topic and are still skeptical about all this, do read the many comments and stories on these blogs. It’s a way more common issue than you’d think!
Additional resources when you are new to using tryptophan and other amino acids as supplements
As always, I use the symptoms questionnaire to figure out if low serotonin or other neurotransmitter imbalances may be an issue.
If you suspect low levels of any of the neurotransmitters and do not yet have my book, The Antianxiety Food Solution – How the Foods You Eat Can Help You Calm Your Anxious Mind, Improve Your Mood, and End Cravings, I highly recommend getting it and reading it before jumping in and using amino acids on your own so you are knowledgeable. And be sure to share it with the practitioner/health team you or your loved one is working with.
There is an entire chapter on the amino acids and they are discussed throughout the book in the sections on gut health, gluten, blood sugar control (this is covered in an entire chapter too), sugar cravings, anxiety and mood issues.
The book doesn’t include product names (per the publisher’s request) so this blog, The Antianxiety Food Solution Amino Acid and Pyroluria Supplements, lists the amino acids that I use with my individual clients and those in my group programs.
If, after reading this blog and my book, you don’t feel comfortable figuring things out on your own (i.e. doing the symptoms questionnaire and respective amino acids trials), a good place to get help is the GABA QuickStart Program (if you have low GABA symptoms). This is a paid online/virtual group program where you get my guidance and community support. You can sign up to be notified when the next live launch is happening.
If you need serotonin support, the Serotonin QuickStart Program is a good place to get help. This is also a paid online/virtual group program where you get my guidance on using tryptophan and 5-HTP safely, and community support during 5 LIVE Q&A calls. You can sign up to be notified when the next live launch of this program is happening.
If you are a practitioner, join us in The Balancing Neurotransmitters: the Fundamentals program. This is also a paid online/virtual program with an opportunity to interact with me and other practitioners who are also using the amino acids.
Wrapping up and your feedback
I appreciate Dea for sharing her story on the blog and for sharing this information at vitamin stores – we do need more awareness, hence this new blog on the topic to further help create awareness.
It’s very likely that this is one big contributing factor to the rise in anxiety and sleep issues in perimenopause and menopause. And this is probably made worse because so many practitioners are still not aware.
I thanked her for her kind words, and said I’ll take a virtual lunch and a virtual hug from her.
Have you experienced any adverse effects from collagen, gelatin or bone broth?
Have you been able to continue using them by adding tryptophan?
And why do you use collagen/how is it helping?
If you’re a practitioner are you aware of this issue for certain susceptible individuals?
Feel free to share and ask your questions below.
Can glycine powder taken at bed time cause horrible realistic nightmares? I was using it for helping with sleep and it seems to cause the nightmares and talking out loud in my sleep, which I have never done before.
Thank you for the information,
C.
C
I’m not aware of this issue. I’m curious if it helped sleep despite this and if the nightmares and talking during sleep stopped when glycine was stopped. I’m also curious about the dose used?
I use Paleo Valley grass fed bone broth protein. It has .06 g of tryptophan in it.
I do have anxiety, but I always have since childhood and I am 73. Should I add more tryptophan?
Jane
I’d be curious to hear if anxiety has increased since using this bone broth “protein” (I have an issue with calling it protein since it’s not a complete protein and it can be misleading).
I would only recommend exploring supplementing with tryptophan (or 5-HTP) for someone with the worry kind of anxiety/ruminations who also has other low serotonin symptoms https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
I do want to stay it’s never too late to resolve anxiety. If you don’t yet have my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” it’s a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
2 things:
1. Your articles do not cover why/how the collagen causes (mechanism) a depletion of serotonin. The information, while interesting and important, is circular and repetitive.
2. The assertion that the collagen depletes serotonin is contradictory to other information on collagen. If glycine is in collagen products, it should increase serotonin.
a) So, am wondering is it the product formulation/process of some manufacturers? Perhaps, some products when tested, would come up short and/or excessive in the amino acid mix. Other articles also state that it shouldn’t be the only or major form of getting protein.
b) Since Glycine contributes to making serotonin and tryptophan is the precursor of melatonin and also of the neurotransmitter serotonin – then also perhaps there is something else going on in some people where the glycine can’t be process/made into the precursors for serotonin? Problems with the liver doing its job? You alluded to this issue but not explicit in what is actually taking place to actually cause the serotonin depletion.
See example:
4 Sleep Benefits of Glycine
This amino acid enhances sleep and supports whole-body health.
Posted February 13, 2019 | Reviewed by Jessica Schrader
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/sleep-newzzz/201902/4-sleep-benefits-of-glycine
I use Dr. Axe’s Ancient Nutrition brand Multi-collagen protein with vitamin C powder in my morning coffee and suffer no ill-effects. I also use their bone broth protein chicken soup powder in the evening or middle of the night (if woken up and can’t get back to sleep) with great results – helping to get back to sleep. I add Redmonds Real Salt for taste. I have also recently started adding Plucks zesty garlic seasoning as well for additional nutrition and flavor. It seems to help overall.
Insightful
It sounds like you may be one of those who are fortunate enough to not experience increased anxiety when consuming collagen. As I mention it affects some more than others (my original blog post lists who is more susceptible). I would be concerned with waking in the night as this can be related to low serotonin too.
That said, simply because it doesn’t affect you doesn’t mean there are no issues with it – as I said, please read all the negative results in the many blog comments.
I’ve done my best to explain acute tryptophan depletion (ATD) in a number of the blogs but here is another reference: “Another tryptophan-deficient amino acid mixture that has been used is collagen-based. Collagen is a protein that is naturally free of tryptophan. Compared with the formula based on human milk, it has much higher levels of glycine and much lower levels of methionine, and it includes hydroxyproline. It lowered human plasma tryptophan levels by 74%.” https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3756112/#b84-pg294
It has everything to do with the nature of collagen and nothing to do with product formulation/process of some manufacturers.
You do raise a good point about glycine and the fact it does support serotonin production. It’s not an area I know much about (yet!) but will explore further. For now it does seem the liver and genetics may possibly be factors or perhaps the tryptophan-depletion effects over-ride this in those who are more susceptible. Also, SSRIs and other medications can affect glycine receptors, so this may be a big factor especially since those who are more susceptible to the adverse effects of collagen include those with a history of depression and antidepressant use.
I’ve started using collagen with glutamine recently for joint and skin and brittle hair and nail issues. How often and how much of tryptophan should I have to prevent the anxiety side affects ?
Rezana
I’d be curious to hear if anxiety has increased since using this?
I would only recommend exploring supplementing with tryptophan (or 5-HTP) for someone with the worry kind of anxiety/ruminations who also has other low serotonin symptoms https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
The dosing of tryptophan/5-htp is very individualized for each person and it’s best to start low and increase from the typical starting dose of each.
I recently read that most collagen in the market cannot be absorbed and so ends up clogging the liver (to ill effect). Do you have any comment on this? If this is true, maybe that intensifies the anxiety?
I am one of those people who experiences anxiety with collagen consumption. I am now taking a break from it. Will try to add it back in with tryptophan. I have osteopenia so taking collagen to try to strengthen bone.
Lois
I’m not aware of collagen clogging the liver – feel free to share a link or the name of the article.
I also encourage you to read the paper I share in this blog – Collagen supplementation in skin and orthopedic diseases: A review of the literature
I would only recommend exploring supplementing with tryptophan (or 5-HTP) for someone with the worry kind of anxiety/ruminations who also has other low serotonin symptoms https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/ Can you relate to these low serotonin symptoms?
Yes, I have many of the low serotonin symptoms. I am already taking GABA Calm 3x/day. I have your book and will revisit these issues. I am skeptical of collagen and protein powders in general because how do you know what is really in them. Many contain egg which I am allergic to. I am cutting out collagen completely for at least a month to see if symptoms lessen. The liver info came from email ‘newsletter’ that I occasionally get from Medical Medium. I don’t know if he is reputable or not and can’t find the info on his website to link. So I copied the relevant passage below:
“Collagen products help clog an already stagnant and sluggish liver, resulting in lowered conversion abilities when the liver is converting vitamins and nutrients for the body to use. Other vitamins and nutrients are the true building blocks to collagen. Taking collagen does the reverse of restoring collagen. It causes you to lose collagen because it burdens an already stagnant, sluggish liver.
Collagen products never worked; you can’t create new collagen in the body by consuming collagen itself. You have to consume plant foods such as leafy greens, herbs, and fruits to give you the building blocks to create collagen. Collagen products are starting to change. They are now including silica, vitamin C, nettle leaf, and other herbs and plant food–based compounds and vitamins that help the body produce its own collagen, the way it’s meant to. If collagen is still an ingredient in a supplement, it’s not ideal. Eventually collagen products won’t have any collagen in them at all.”
Again, I am skeptical of anything that I read in the “wellness” space.
Thank you for your thoughts and expertise.
Lois
I’d also be skeptical reading something like this especially when it’s not referenced. There is no merit to this information.
Collagen powders do not typically contain egg and there are many protein powders that contain protein sources other than egg so it should be easy to avoid
Trudy,
I beg to differ! I was taking “Total Fem Collagen” (link below) by Isa Herrera. I had NO issues with it until they changed the formula. They added chicken broth collagen and eggshell membrane collagen. I had a reaction after they added those ingredients. In my search for egg-free collagen, I ran across others that also contained egg products. Yes, I have found collagen without egg but still have to manage my anxiety reaction to consuming collagen.
Lois
I stand corrected and am surprised to hear that eggshell membrane collagen is being used given how common egg allergies/sensitivities are. Sorry to hear you react to this and other similar products and thanks for sharing (as this may help others too). It’s frustrating when you find something that works and then the formulation changes!