ruminating

How do you do with using the amino acid 5-HTP for supporting your low serotonin symptoms of anxiety, worry, ruminating, fears, depression and insomnia?  Does it help or does it cause nightmares? On a recent Facebook thread someone shared that 5-HTP causes really bad nightmares, so she had to stop using it. A few others posted saying 5-HTP also caused them nightmares. I’ve not had any clients report nightmares, so I was surprised to hear this feedback.  However, most folks on the same Facebook thread shared that 5-HTP works very well for them and does not cause nightmares. There is also research that supports the use of 5-HTP for night terrors. I suspect it may have to do with low vitamin B6 and share more on that below.

Here is her experience with 5-HTP and nightmares and some of my feedback:

I don’t know how anyone takes 5-HTP. The horrific nightmares I got from taking it made me stop 50 mg. I tried 3 times thinking it was a fluke and it happened every time. Too scary for me.

My first try was suggested from my Naturopath, Metagenics SeroSyn. 200 mg. First morning waking up I had a nightmare so bad I can’t even share it. I also woke up feeling unable to wake up, drugged almost. So I waited, did more research and googled 5-HTP and nightmares just to see if there was a connection. I found it. I read to lower the dosage. So I went to Pure Encapsulations 50 mg. Same thing happened. I tried 2 more times, same thing happened. When I researched, I found so many people talking about “vivid dreams” and after my last attempt the dream was so real I thought my son was in my home when I woke up and had to process reality from my dream. That did it for me. Now I’m terrified of it. Just my own experience. I did get help from depression though! But I cannot go through one evil for another. Now I’m stuck looking for help and answers.

I thanked her for sharing and agreed it does help to do a few experiments to be sure it was the 5-HTP. I also shared that I would not consider the Metagenics SeroSyn a good 5-HTP to test because of all the other ingredients. But it also happened with Pure Encapsulations 50 mg 5-HTP – that was a good test to confirm.

I also shared that some folks do better on 5-HTP and some on tryptophan so if 5-HTP did help with low serotonin symptoms then I’d consider a trial of tryptophan especially since she did say using the 5-HTP helped with her depression.

We would also look for other ways to support serotonin – saffron, turmeric, St. John’s Wort, theanine (it supports GABA, serotonin and dopamine) and of course diet (real whole food, quality animal protein, no gluten/sugar/caffeine, fermented foods, organic vegetables and fruit, healthy fats etc), gut health and more.

I’d also look into and address low zinc and low vitamin B6 as both are needed to make serotonin and the other neurotransmitters. More on low vitamin B6, pyroluria and nightmares below.

Here is some of the feedback from other folks who also had issues with 5-HTP:

• 5-HTP didn’t mix well with my body either. Taken at night, horrible dreams, and 50mg Pure Encapsulations formula in the morning made me feel so dark, spaced out and terrible nausea.
• I appreciate this post. I had nightmares from a magnesium supplement that included 5-HTP! Now I know I’m not alone.

And here is some of the feedback from folks who do well with 5-HTP (the majority of those who responded):

• I take 100 mg of 5-HTP in the morning (Natural Factors) and about 350 mg of tryptophan before bed (Lidtke). It works well for me. No nightmares although I do dream a lot. Mostly noticed improvement in mood and ruminating thoughts. Also taking Sam-e which also helps.
• I take chewable natural factors Tranquil Sleep. It contains other ingredients (like theanine) as well but it’s really easy to dose. If I take 2 it’s too much. I get weird dreams and a headache. So 1 1/2 it is.
• 5-htp helped me so much! But I had to take it in the morning. 250mg was perfect for me. I was using this for my debilitating anxiety which would keep me in flight or fight all day and I would ruminate. Really helped me along with therapy. I no longer need it.
• I’ve just started taking 50mg 5-HTP at night. It’s a micronized version I buy from a compounding chemist in Australia. No negative side effects so far.
• Grateful for the reminder … I did great on 5-htp myself. Have had all dose amounts, given at different times too. I deal with chronic pain and trauma/stress.
• My sister gets anxiety on 5-HTP but it helps me so much! I have not tracked regular consumption compared to my sleep (I get too much REM without it and wake up exhausted). I also no longer need it as a daily and can take it as needed. I take 200mg, forget the brand but it’s a single ingredient.
• I take 50 mg of 5-HTP from Seeking Health and do very well on it. It has helped me with depression, worry, fear, more energy and motivation and no nightmares.
• I take the Now brand, 100mg at bedtime along with the same brand of L theanine. No nightmares and I’ve been doing this for about 5 years.
• I use 50mg Seeking Health 5-HTP and I love it. It gives me energy and motivation, helps with intrusive thoughts and anxiety. I’ve used the Jarrow brand in the past without results. No nightmares. P5P, on the other hand, I cannot take. It gives me such clear, vivid nightmares I would wake up crying. Never again.

We are all unique and there is clearly no one-size fits all.

Low vitamin B6 can cause nightmares or poor dream recall

It’s well recognized that low vitamin B6 can cause nightmares or poor dream recall. In this study, Effects of Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine) and a B Complex Preparation on Dreaming and Sleep (which was randomized, double-blind and placebo-controlled), 100 participants from across Australia were given 240 mg vitamin B6 (pyridoxine hydrochloride) before bed for five consecutive days. Other study participants were given a B complex. This is the outcome of the study:

• vitamin B6 significantly increased the amount of dream content participants recalled but did not significantly affect dream vividness, bizarreness, or color, nor did it significantly affect other sleep-related variables
• participants in the B complex group showed significantly lower self-rated sleep quality and significantly higher tiredness on waking

This vitamin B6/dream recall research is of particular interest to me because of my work with pyroluria, a social anxiety condition which responds really well to supplementation with zinc, vitamin B6 or P5P (pyridoxal-5-phosphate) or a combination of both, and a few other key nutrients.  Here is the pyroluria questionnaire.

One of the classic signs of pyroluria is poor dream recall, stressful or bizarre dreams, or nightmares, signs which the late Carl Pfeiffer, MD attributed to low vitamin B6 status. He suggested that your dreams and dream recall serve as a good indicator of your need for vitamin B6. You should dream every night and you should remember your dreams. They should be pleasant – the kind of dreams where you wake up and want to close your eyes and continue dreaming.

Could it be that folks who get nightmares with 5-HTP, happen to also have pyroluria? Or perhaps they simply have low vitamin B6 status? I have all my anxious clients supplement with vitamin B6 and/or P5P and this may be why nightmares with 5-HTP was news to me.

5-HTP can increase cortisol – does this affect nightmares?

There is research and clinical evidence supporting that, for some individuals, 5-HTP can raise cortisol. I’ve blogged about this here:

This is not always the case. Someone in the same Facebook thread shared this: “My cortisol measured above the reference range, but 5-HTP is the only thing I’ve found that’s helping me sleep recently.”

I’m not aware of a high cortisol-nightmare connection but it’s possible. In one study, nightmares triggered high cortisol the next morning, but I donut this has relevance in this situation.

5-HTP induces long-term improvement of sleep terrors in children

There clearly is a subset of folks who don’t do well with 5-HTP and yet there is evidence that it can actually improve sleep terrors. In a small open label clinical trial of 45 children, it was found that 5-HTP was able to “modulate the arousal level in children and to induce a long-term improvement of sleep terrors” (in the majority of children in the trial). There were 34 male and 11 female children ranging in age from 3.2-10.6 years.

After the first visit, L -5-HTP was administered (2 mg/kg per day) at bedtime to 31 randomly selected patients for a single period of 20 consecutive days. After 1 month of treatment, 29/31 (93.5%) of patients showed a positive response. In the comparison group without drug therapy, after 1 month, the episodes disappeared only in four children (28.6%) while ten children (71.4%) showed the persistence of episodes with the same frequency as before. After 6 months, 26/31 (83.9%) of children treated with L -5HTP were sleep terror-free, while in five children (16.1%) sleep terror episodes persisted. Of the children in the comparison group, ten (71.4%) continued to show sleep terrors at 6-month follow-up.

If we assume a 10-year-old weighs, 70lb or close to 32kg, they would have been given 60mg 5-HTP (i.e. 2 mg/kg).

Typical adult dosing of 5-HTP is 50mg twice a day, mid-afternoon and evening. For a 10-year-old we may start with a quarter of this dose i.e. 12.5mg or 25mg 5-HTP twice a day, for a total of 25mg or 50mg a day – which is close to what was used in this study.

You can read more about this in the paper here: L -5-Hydroxytryptophan treatment of sleep terrors in children

Resources if you are new to using 5-HTP and other amino acids as supplements

If you are new to using any of the amino acids as supplements, here is the Amino Acids Mood Questionnaire from The Antianxiety Food Solution (you can see all the symptoms of neurotransmitter imbalances, including low serotonin and low GABA).

If you suspect low levels of any of the neurotransmitters and do not yet have my book, The Antianxiety Food Solution – How the Foods You Eat Can Help You Calm Your Anxious Mind, Improve Your Mood, and End Cravings, I highly recommend getting it and reading it before jumping in and using amino acids on your own so you are knowledgeable. And be sure to share it with the practitioner/health team you or your loved one is working with.

There is an entire chapter on the amino acids and they are discussed throughout the book in the sections on gut health, gluten, blood sugar control, sugar cravings, self-medicating with alcohol and more.

The book doesn’t include product names (per the publisher’s request) so this blog, The Antianxiety Food Solution Amino Acid and Pyroluria Supplements, lists the amino acids that I use with my individual clients and those in my group programs. You can find them all in my online store.

If, after reading this blog and my book, you don’t feel comfortable figuring things out on your own (i.e. doing the symptoms questionnaire and respective amino acids trials), a good place to get help is the GABA QuickStart Program (if you have low GABA symptoms). This is a paid online/virtual group program where you get my guidance and community support.

If you are a practitioner, join us in The Balancing Neurotransmitters: the Fundamentals program. This is also a paid online/virtual program with an opportunity to interact with me and other practitioners who are also using the amino acids.

How do you do with 5-HTP for low mood, worry-type of low serotonin anxiety, cravings, PMS, negative self-talk, anger/rage/irritability, insomnia, ruminating thoughts, winter blues etc? Does it help?

Or does it give you nightmares that are bad enough that you have had to stop?

Please share how much you used? And if tryptophan or other serotonin support helped instead?

Did the addition of vitamin B6 or P5P help prevent the nightmares when using 5-HTP?

And do you have pyroluria or suspect you may have it? Do you have high cortisol?

If you’re a practitioner I’d love to hear your experiences with 5-HTP and nightmares.

If you have questions please share them here too.