Dr. Terry Wahls, MD, author of The Wahls Protocol, was interviewed on the Anxiety Summit by host of the Anxiety Summit, Trudy Scott, Food Mood Expert and Nutritionist, author of The Antianxiety Food Solution.
Multiple sclerosis and anxiety: The Wahls Protocol
- A move to diet and lifestyle research
- Recovery from MS with functional medicine and the Wahls Paleo™ diet
- MS and anxiety: myelin damage, medications, GABA and glutathione
- The Wahls Paleo™ diet
- Organ meats and a ketogenic diet
Here are some snippets from our interview:
Here are some gems from our interview, starting with a quick overview of the Wahls diet (which is based on Paleo principles:
My focus is ramping up the vegetables and the target is nine cups because I’m a tall lady, six foot tall. And if you’re a petite female or a very petite man it might be six cups. It should be equally divided between dark green leafy vegetables like spinach, kale. Sulfur containing vegetables, in particular the cabbage, onion and mushroom families because of the medicinal qualities of those three food groups. And then deeply pigmented stuff – carrots, beets, peppers, berries. And I’m really looking for all the colors, particularly blue, black, purple.
Dr Wahls shares how her MS was a gift:
And it all needs to happen this way Trudy. I had to get that disabled. I had to be on the verge of utter catastrophe to begin to feel the effects of cognitive decline to do all this work and then feel the effects of all this healing that happens when you provide a healthy habitat for the human ecosystem and all this repair happens. If this hadn’t of have happened I’d still be a conventional medicine doc thinking the latest drugs out of the New England Journal of Medicine were the way to go as opposed to seeing the gospel of food and sleep and movement and stress reduction.
So my kids still sort of wish I’d never gotten MS and that I was still as vigorous of an athlete as I once was. But Jackie and I are like, you know, it all had to happen this way. And the gifts that I’ve received from it happening this way are really quite profound.
Here is Dr. Wahls’ feedback on benzodiazepines:
very, very strong for addiction potential. And then once you’re on them getting off them is a very complicated process because if you suddenly stop you can have withdrawal problems that can become life threatening. So one has to be very gradual, very slow in the reduction phase. It’s certainly very important, very worth doing. The best bet is to never get on that stuff and to use dietary and lifestyle environmental approaches first.
My blog has plenty of information on benzodiazepines. Here is the most recent one – Benzodiazepines: informed consent? Your support is needed. I encourage you to search the blog for additional information.
Here are some of the studies we discussed in the interview:
A recent study in the Journal of Child neurology included 140 children 5-18 years of age. The paper, Behavioral Symptoms in Pediatric Multiple Sclerosis: Relation to Fatigue and Cognitive Impairment, found that
Although the type of clinical problems varied across participants, attention problems, somatization, and anxiety were found to be most common
In another recent study Anxiety, depression and fatigue at 5-year review following CNS demyelination
Of the 236 cases, 40.2% had clinical anxiety, 16.0% had clinical depression, and 41.3% had clinical fatigue.
Dr. Wahls is the author of The Wahls Protocol: A Radical New Way to Treat All Chronic Autoimmune Conditions Using Paleo Principles
I mentioned that we’ll both be presenting at IMMH/ Integrative Medicine for Mental Health in Washington DC in September.
Missed this interview or can’t listen live? Or want this and the other great interviews for your learning library? Purchase the MP3s or MP3s + transcripts and listen when it suits you.
You can find your purchasing options here.: Anxiety Summit Season 1, Anxiety Summit Season 2, Anxiety Summit Season 3, and Anxiety Summit Season 4.
This was a great interview. I have found help with my MS Followingvthis diet. I do have a question for those who suffers from hypothyroidism and 3 cups leafy greens daily. How can we know if it is affecting our thyroid or if we are able to tolerate that each day?
Lisa
Wonderful to hear. I would work with your doctor and do frequent thyroid testing and also watch for changes in symptoms. Cooking leafy greens does reduce their goitrogenic effects too.
Ive been listening to the wall niter view for ten minutes of advertising and no information. What a waste of time.
Jean
I think you’re saying “I’ve been listening to the Wahls interview”? I like to highlight the valuable work my speakers are doing (via their books, programs, events etc) and to provide resources for summit attendees who want to further their learning. It’s unfortunate that you see this as advertising but even if you do I encourage you to hang in there and listen to the rest of an incredible interview.
Thank you for this interview. I’m in the process of looking for a new doctor since I’ve recently moved and I’m hoping to find someone willing to work with me on incorporating the Wahls Protocol with my low FODMAPs diet for IBS and modifying it for my food allergies and Oral Allergy Syndrome. Today’s interview helped me plan that upcoming conversation.
Dr. Wahls mentioned a book called “The making of an epidemic.”
I could not find a book by that name, but I did find a book called “Anatomy of an Epidemic” by Robert Whitaker.
Enjoying each speaker – wonderful content.
You are correct – thanks!
I am so excited that this summit had Terry Wahls as a speaker! She is an inspiration to me! I have started a paleo life nearly 2 1/2 years ago after reading her book. I have MS and due to my food, supplements, essential oils and stem cells (2 years ago) I am in a very healthy place. I do still have issues with PTSD, anxiety and depression that I am still working on and I am hopeful I will gather great information to help me continue to heal.
Thank you!
Johanna
How wonderful for you. You will learn plenty here for the anxiety, PTSD and depression – the next step in your healing journey
I read an article linked to topic on oxalates by Great Plains Director this year listing high, medium, low oxalates. Regardless of level, quantities have to be regulated. I have heard 3 ways to reduce oxalates in veggies:
1. boiling high & medium or low oxalate foods & throw away the water
3. Donna Gates, body ecologist, says adding good bacteria Lactobaccilus plantarum in fermented foods which eat oxalates. Correct me if this is not the right good bacteria.This is based on my memory.
4. increase ammonia in soil. Some food growing systems allow this so best to grow own veggies to control soil quality.
I tried avoiding high & medium oxalates but low oxalates is so limited. So I boil them now despite my live-food diet that uses low temperature only to keep enzymes & nutrients intact. I just do not know to what extent oxalates are reduced with boiling. Do you know of studies on how to reduce oxalates?
Trina
I’m going to ask my colleague Julie Matthews to comment on this – I consider her an expert in the topic
HI Trina, To answer your question. There are two studies I know of: one on boiling oxalate (showing a 25-75% (average 50%) reduction in oxalate (if you dump out the water). While this is helpful for lower oxalate foods it still makes extremely high oxalate foods too high. There is also a study on roasting foods for over 30 minutes that showed some reduction in oxalate. I have not seem studies on fermentation. For me, these cooking methods are wonderful for helping “lower” oxalates in moderate foods, but still do not allow people to consume high oxalates foods in large amounts. Here is an article I wrote on oxalates you might find interesting. http://bioindividualnutrition.com/oxalates-their-influence-on-chronic-disease/
Oh, yes and soaking can reduce oxalate too.
Thanks Julie! I knew you’d have good answers and a resource to share
Trina – Julie’s interview is on Sunday and is not to be missed!
Dr. Devra Davis of Environmental Health Trust who was a speaker on Scientific Truth about cell phones, wireless EMFs & Cancer in the recent Natural Cancer Prevention Summit said that EMF can cause demyelination. Dr. Wahl mentioned myelin damage due to other causes. Could this cell damage due to EMF be repaired with the same healing foods you suggest for other causes of damage? or do you know of additional foods & nutrients needed to repair myelin damage if due to high frequencies or EMF to be faster & more effective?
Trina
Interesting question that I don’t have the answer to but it’s worth researching – have added it to my list. Do let me know if you come across anything.
Dr Drew Ramsey talked about the brain regenerating so I would assume we could see some improvement and maybe a whole lot
Check out this blog too – the brain recovers with food! https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/apigenin-flavonoid-parsley-increases-brain-connections-reduces-anxiety/
Trudy,
I have to tell you that I think you could teach her a few things!!! The interview was great but she kind of lost me at Al Gore and the internet. Overall, it was good to hear her. I have listened to her TED talk. My mother had MS. New info is also pointing to Lyme being misdiagnosed as MS as they can both show brain lesions. I did find it interesting that she is really now living in ketosis. That didn’t come up until the end. I found when I lived in ketosis a long time ago the my brain began getting a bit fuzzy. Probably needed more of things I was not getting. Of course I wasn’t eating 9 cups of veggies as those are HIGH in carbos. So not sure how she is maintaining ketosis. But I am so happy that she is showing the medical community that there is so much more than drugs. I find taking in that amount of vegetable to be a bit daunting both from the amount and the digestion issues. I wonder how you feel about some of the ‘green’ supplement powders to increase the intake? Thanks. You do a great job at these interviews.
Candy
I also love that she is making strides in the medical community and sharing her research. She is truly amazing. I’m not a huge fan of green powders
So what do you think of a ketogenic diet? Approached like Maria Emmerich does?
Also, I believe my son may have this too. I do not see any information for males here.
Candy
The ketogenic diet is covered in Dr. Wahls’ book and is very effective for many conditions. I’m not familiar with Maria Emmerich and her work.
All of this information works for men and boys too
Thank you!