This is such a great segment on zinc/copper balance in pyroluria and autism so I really want to share it. Dr. Usman was one of many excellent speakers on the Autism Intensive online event.
An excerpt from Dr. Usman’s interview: Optimizing Metabolic-Immune Communication and Function
Dr. Usman: …. In the 70s, they were breaking down individuals with schizophrenia into three phenotypes: low histamine, high histamine and pyrolurics. At the time this phenotype of pyroluria in schizophrenia was manifest as a B6, zinc deficiency and when they were given high doses of B6 or zinc, their schizophrenia improved.
Dr. Schwartz: So that was kind of your first exposure to nutritional vitamins.
Dr. Usman: Yeah. I was treating patients with depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, mental illness with these various protocols that Carl Pfeiffer had developed. I started doing research in copper/zinc imbalances. We had over 500 patients with autism involved in a study that we look at there. We look at plasma zinc and serum copper ratios. When you ratio plasma zinc to serum copper what you’re looking for is a ratio of 1 to 1.
Dr. Schwartz: Balance is more important than the absolute number.
Dr. Usman: Correct.
Dr. Schwartz: Another concept that takes us outside the traditional lab values?
Dr. Usman: Exactly. You’re not looking at a lab number, but you’re looking at a ratio.
Dr. Schwartz: So both zinc and copper could be in the normal range, but the ratio can be way off. That’s something I’ve certainly seen in my patients.
Dr. Usman: Correct. When the ratio of copper and zinc is off, we want that ratio to be one-to-one. And patients with inflammatory issues and patients with various autoimmune issues and sick patients in general, their ratio ends up being disturbed. We found out in the autistic population was that 99% of them, which is a very low P value in statistics.
Dr. Schwartz: Zero, zero, zero, zero.
Dr. Usman: Zero, zero, zero, zero. 99% of them had low zinc, high copper and they had a high ratio of copper to zinc – of over 1.2.
Dr. Schwartz: So very dramatic.
Dr. Usman: Yeah. Then Dr. Walsh, who headed the Pfeiffer treatment center, had a theory that this was due to defect in a protein called metallothionein. Metallothionein is a protein that, in a way, transports copper and zinc through the body.
Can you please tell me the proper laboratory code for the Pyroluria test? Neither my physican’s office, nor the (it’s a major, nationwide) lab could locate the code or anything related to the test. I would very much appreciate your assistance in resolving this so I may be tested for Pyroluria as soon as possible. I took the Pyroluria quiz and if it’s reliable, I have Pyroluria. But a blood test wold be much appreciated for purposes of clarification and validation. Thank you!!!
Stacy
I’m afraid you won’t find a code as this is a functional urine test offered by specialty labs. I don’t do pyroluria testing because of the false negatives but this labs does direct to consumer testing https://www.pyroluriatesting.com/
For pyroluria testing: http://directhealthcareaccess.net/ If you call, ask for Nick, and tell him Doretta sent you!)
You can read about my son’s interventions on #4TheLoveOfDavid. Shawn Bean of Marix Health & Wellness helps people all around the world through Skype and phone sessions. he is closely connected to Ben Lynch who is a methylation expert.
Thanks Doretta – would you mind sharing a link to your son’s story?
I assume he tested positive for pyroluria? As I’m sure you’re aware not everyone does. Many people score high on the questionnaire, test negative and then don’t pursue the pyroluria protocol and it’s so unfortunate
Hi Tracy. I use http://www.hputest.nl
I find this lab KEAC the most reliable. Dr John is very clever too. He runs the lab.
Anne
Thanks for sharing this resource! I will be looking into this lab and sharing once I’ve connected with them. I see you’re in the UK so assume they do international.
So, if I am reading the above correctly, the ideal ratio of copper to zinc is 1 to 1. But, even if the ratio of copper to zinc is 1.2, that is considered high copper to zinc? 1.2? I just wanted to make sure that number was correct because it isn’t much above 1.
I take zinc because I’ve tested low via Spectracell and retested copper and zinc and my zinc was still too low compared to copper. I also have hypothyroidism. May need to do the kryptopyrrole test. Do you have a lab recommendation that sells direct to consumers? The lab in your book is physician-ordered only. Your book is great, BTW!
Kristy
Yes plasma zinc and serum copper ratio of 1:1 is ideal and 1.2 is not per Dr Usman (this is all new to me and I hope to learn more and share more in the future).
Please note plasma zinc and serum copper. Spectracell does not measure plasma or serum but rather looks at nutrients in lymphocytes (more here http://www.spectracell.com/faq/) so you’re comparing apples to oranges. I do not use Spectracell much and the results I have seen have not been terribly useful so I’m still on the fence about this testing.
I also don’t do pyroluria testing because of the false negatives but this labs does direct to consumer https://www.pyroluriatesting.com/
If your zinc is very low what is the best form to take. I started taking a Zinc supplement by ethical nutrients, which contains:
Ascorbic acid
Zinc sulfate monohydrate (62mg)
Magnesium phosphate
Pyriodoxine hydrochloride (b6)
Dunaliella Salina
But when I took it it made me extremely constipated. So now I don’t dare take it.
Why would this make me constipated?
and what form of zinc should I be getting/best absorbed with out constipation.
I am in Australia.
Jodie
I’m not familiar with this particular product and have not heard of constipation as a side-effect of zinc. I like Optizinc (without copper – some brands have copper) or zinc picolinate or zinc chelate.
Jodie – OptiZinc (Zinc Monomethionine) is probably the best or most usable/assimilated form. When you took the above
combination, did you always take it with food?!
“OptiZinc” is a patented form, and is not peculiar to just one supplement manufacturer… it does not necessarily have copper added to it, so you might get this from your multi
vitamin/mineral, separate supplement, or from food(?)
Dennis
What if you have low copper but normal range of zinc. I’ve been very anxious and getting worse. I don’t know the plasma zinc and serum copper ratio. That will be what I try to find out next. I’m guessing I have a high zinc to copper ratio since my copper is the low value and I’ve supplemented with zinc in the past.
Replying so I can get notification of new commemts
Hi Trudy, a couple of months ago I had a positive (33.48 result) urine test of pyroluria. I also had other labs including my zinc level which the result showed it was high (137 result)- as well of course my KP count. Copper results showed normal. What does that tell you? I was under the impression pyroluria would show a deficiency in zinc. I also have high histamine levels.
I was diagnosed with Pyroluria about 2 weeks ago. It was confirmed through a Direct Health Access pyroluria test. I’ve been on the zinc, B6 and evening primrose oil supplements for 2 weeks now and it seems to be helping my generalized anxiety and overall mood. However, I still feel very fatigued throughout the day. Is this normal with pyroluria or is it likely from a copper/zinc imbalance (too much copper).. or something else? All of my issues with anxiety and fatigue started about 6 months ago — before that, I didn’t really battle with any of these symptoms on a daily basis, so it’s rather frustrating. I’ve also been gluten-free and caffeine-free for over 2 months and am following the dietary recommendations in The Antianxiety Food Solution book. Any advice or feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Lauren
I’m really glad to hear the protocol is helping the anxiety and mood! It could be due to high copper but I would also look at anemia (test iron/ferritin), low blood sugar, adrenal health, thyroid health, low B12, other food sensitivities (dairy?), and low catecholamines (do the amino acid questionnaire – tyrosine can do wonders but you have to be careful it doesn’t make you more anxious).
Not sure if this is a good place to post this but I have been diagnosed with Pyroluria but I am low copper too. This seems unusual doesn’t it? Just wondered if anyone has experienced this… thanks all and good luck
Hi Trudie, what do you think could cause high zinc and low copper?
Carolyne
This paper (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2872358/) has some good examples “Inhalation of zinc-containing smoke generally originates from industrial processes like galvanization, primarily affecting manufacture workers. In addition, military smoke bombs contain zinc oxide or zinc chloride, making soldiers a group in which several cases of inhalation of zinc-containing fumes” and “Taking up large doses of supplemental zinc over extended periods of time is frequently associated with copper deficiency”
They also state:”systemic zinc toxicity is not a major health problem. On the other hand, due to its essentiality, a lack of this trace element leads to far more severe and widespread problems.”
Hi Trudy, My soon-to-be 4 year old granddaughter, Ava, has the most terrible nightmares and when she is wakened, she is terrified of even her parents! She does not want anyone to come near her and screams hysterically. Ava can often relate the dream – such as dogs eating her face! Really worrying content to her dreams e.g. she has no contact with dogs, loves animals and does not watch any TV…. When my daughter tried to discuss this with a child physiologist, the woman said she had never heard of a child doing this and said she didn’t know what to do about it!
I was so excited to read that this is probably a B6 deficiency. Mainly as it offers hope of saving Ava from this trauma.
Ava is a very healthy little girl but another problem she has is her hair just does not grow. She had her first ever haircut a week or two ago and that was just to “tidy” it up. Her hair is thin (in quantity and quality) and it is not even at shoulder length after 4 years.… Could this be a zinc deficiency or maybe a pyroluria symptom?
Karen
It’s very common for low levels of vitamin B6 to cause nightmares like this. Low zinc can affect hair growth too. If I was working with you and your grand-daughter and she scores high on other sections of the pyroluria questionnaire I’d consider a trial of the supplements.
Hi Trudy,
My zinc levels are fine but my copper is high. How can I bring down my copper. I had a copper IUD for 7 years before I realized that it was causing all sorts of problems. It also made me go into menopause at age 39 and have hot flashes, I also developed Hypothyroid, anxiety, joint pain and adrenal fatigue!!! If you had a client like me where would you begin?
RP
Zinc helps to lower copper and removing other sources of copper. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/copper-toxicity-anxiety-phobias-adhd-heavy-metals-summit/ Do tune in to the Heavy Metals summit to learn more