This is a great question that was posted on my blog by Margaret Floyd, author of Eat Naked, a great book on clean eating. Here is a review I did awhile back.
The question (which she gave me permission to share on a blog):
A close friend of mine has a little 5yr old boy who is celiac. Since his Dx, he’s doing much better but they’re struggling to get it out of his diet 100% – he keeps getting “glutened” as she calls it by well-meaning but uneducated parents of his friends, his chess coach, etc. and he’s VERY sensitive to even the slightest exposure. He takes a good 3-4 weeks to recover psychologically every time he’s exposed.
She recently started supplementing him with the supplement SeroPlus (maybe you know it?) which has 5HTP in it. She gave it to him last week when he got “glutened” and noticed his temperament was SO much better than usual. So she’s kept him on it But she’s worried about him developing a dependence on supplemental serotonin in this way.
My instinct is that he won’t develop a dependence because she’s giving him the precursor, and this is so important while his body and specifically, gut, heals. But I wanted to ask you since you’re the pro in these matters. What’s your experience been?
This is a really great question so I decided it was worth sharing with a bigger audience via a blog and my ezine. Here is my response:
I’ve not used Seroplus but it looks good and the positive result is always a good thing! You’re right and I agree, I don’t see dependence as being an issue – we know gluten issues can lead to low serotonin so his continued consumption of gluten may be continually depleting his levels, plus his gut needs to heal.
One issue longer term may be that his gluten exposure may very likely have impacted his adrenals and 5-HTP can raise cortisol which won’t be good if his cortisol is high. This is why in adults I use tryptophan unless I know cortisol results. In kids I always only use tryptophan since it’s closer to food. And I do like to use an individual amino acid versus a combo product as it’s easier to increase and/or decrease just the amino acid. And mom may need to reduce the amount as his gut heals and his serotonin levels come up so you don’t get a reverse effect (too much of any amino can do this).
One more thing to consider is methylation and SNPs – detox is compromised with the MTHFR polymorphisms and this product has 500mcg of folate (the good form!) which may be contributing to his good temperament too. Also if he does have either of the MTHFR mutations it may end up being too much folate if he is given more capsules (hence the benefit of individual amino acids and even individual folate).
I’m sure they are doing all they can to prevent this but would like to suggest this in case…I’d also suggest a card with information on how deadly gluten is to this little guy and really making a point to educate everyone he’s going to be in contact with. I’m sure he’s also old enough to ask smart questions as I’m sure he’s well aware of the effects. It just breaks my heart to hear he keeps getting “glutened”!
Keeping a supply of dipeptidyl peptidase IV (DPP-IV) on hand is also recommended. DPP-IV specifically breaks down gluten.
I hope this helps you when thinking about whether to use 5-HTP or tryptophan and to understand more about gluten and methylation.
Here is the original blog post which was from my interview on The Anxiety Summit: Targeted individual amino acids for eliminating anxiety: practical applications
And here is the Amino Acids Mood Questionnaire from my book The Antianxiety Food Solution.
Do check out all the fantastic questions on these blogs AND all my answers. I respond to every single question posted on my blog so feel free to post one at any time.
In response to the mom of the boy who keeps getting “glutened”… When my son was little and had a similar biological profile, we used something called Serenaid [http://www.klaire.com/prod/proddetail.asp?id=S123-C180]. I kept it in my purse in case of these events. I also spent time explaining the mechanism at play to the parents, grandparents, teachers or whomever…so that, at the very least, I had planted into their heads the concept of “intolerance” vs. “allergy.” I called it the “just one cookie” syndrome because most people who don’t understand how debilitating it is to have even a little gluten secretly believe that they can just sneak in that one snack. They also believe that you are crazy and/or that they are being unkind. So, if you have time, you can explore, at least, the belief they might have about being unkind if they don’t give your child that little *treat*. At school, there was always someone bringing in something unannounced. So, I convinced the school to allow me to leave a variety of *gf/cf goodies* in the freezer in the teachers’ lounge. I’d hang out on the playground, scouting for these parents and when I spied Mrs. X bringing in a tray of cupcakes, I’d ask the teacher to please pull one of my cupcakes from the freezer. If I was met with a look, I’d offer to ask the principal to retrieve the appropriate goodie, so that the teacher wouldn’t have something extra to do. I realize that all this seems hyper-vigilant. But, the recovery from being glutened is too much of a set-back. It takes time for people to get trained. I believe that mostly they feel guilty if they don’t *cheat* on the restriction. So, it’s more that you’re dealing with a kind of social psychology as opposed to someone who really doesn’t care or is out to ignore your request.
Sally
What a wonderful comment full of very practical advice! Thank you! I’m so pleased you brought up the very valid comments about just a little bit, being unkind and treats. Treats and rewarding with treats are just so much a part of society.
Your son was a lucky little boy to have such a diligent mom!
And thank you for mentioning Serenaid! this was a big omission on my part and I’m going to update the post to include a suggestion to have this or another product that contains Dipeptidyl Peptidase IV (DPP-IV) for situations of accidental exposure to gluten. I personally carry mine with me at all times too!
Trudy
I recently went to coeliac meeting in London. They recently did research and checked few supplements which blocks absorption of gluten and found than non of them ware working except ANPEEP( Toloraze G).
Thanks Nona. I just googled ANPEEP and Toloraze G and nothing comes up. Could you please share more information? Perhaps a research paper, link to a study or presentation, the researcher or presenter’s name?
Thank you for this great and informative post. I have very low cortisol so this is helpful. One doctor told me to take 5-htp because tryptophan can cause an inflammatory process. Do you know anything about that? Also, I get a headache when I take more than about 25 mg of 5-htp. Do you think this is something that would get better over time, or do I just need to stick to lower amounts?
Hi Natalie
If you get a headache with more then 25mg 5-HTP I would not take more. It’s unlikely this will get better over time. This could be related to fillers in the product you’re using so I suggest checking that out and possibly trying another brand. What you do depends on the benefits you are currently getting with 25mg – I have my clients rate their symptoms on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being worst – what were some of your scores and what are they now?
I’m going to have to ask you to wait on a new blog post on the tryptophan/inflammmation connection and kynurenine/quinolinic acid. There are some practitioners who are not in favor of tryptophan, saying it can increase quinolinic acid when you have inflammation. I’d like to dig deeper and find some research on this.
Trudy
Hi Trudy,
I do feel a bit better with the 25 mg but depression is still bad and could use a lot more help. I have tried a few brands. The depression varies and gets a lot worse when trying to treat Lyme disease so it is hard to give an exact number. I’d say at it’s worst, it is 8-9 and most days it is 3-5. I have tried many, many things, but am always interested in these types of posts. I do like L-theanine too. I look forward to reading any more of your research on this tryptophan issue and very much appreciate all of your research and sharing.
Oh sorry, meant to say that the small amount of 5-htp only helps relieve the depression just about a 1/2 to 1 number (I’ll take what I can get), but doesn’t help much when I am treating Lyme and have crazy awful mental herxing reactions.
Natalie
You could try tryptophan – some people do better on tryptophan and some do better on 5-HTP. Depression can also be due to low catecholamines and tyrosine can help in this instance.
Lyme disease does make everything more challenging
Trudy
Given the history that Seroplus had a positive dose – response effect, then why not continue using it?
Sorry Trudy, but supplementary Tryptophan is not a good choice. Firstly, it has to compete with other aromatic amino acids for access to the AAA transporter on the blood-brain barrier. Secondly, because of its chemical structure, it’s not well absorbed by the gut.
Thirdly, by supplying Tryptophan alone, you may just end up stoking the kynurenine pathway, with the risk of increasing quinolinic acid synthesis (not a good thing.)
Fourthly, if you have polymorphisms in Tryptophan hydroxylase OR have a defect in BH4, iron or copper metabolism (of which there are many), what little quantities of tryptophan that do make it to serotonergic neurones would be dwarfed by even the relatively low doses of 5HTP supplied by even one capsule per day of this product.
The real issue is our fear of getting kids dependent on any form of medication, whether pharmaceutical or natural products, and that is understandable. Ideally, any sort of medication should only be administered in the lowest effective dose for the shortest possible time. But, we don’t live in an ideal world! Hence, we have to be pragmatic and select the right tool to do the job in the most effective manner.
Tryptophan is not the right choice here.
Dr Jones
Thanks for sharing your perspectives. Let me address a few concerns right away
I do like that Seroplus had a good result and did say this. My concerns are that 5-HTP may be a problem longer-term if his cortisol is high. Also since it’s a combo product we don’t know if the benefits he is getting is from the 5-HTP or the folate. Finally, they may have issues having him take more than one.
I do see incredible results with folks using tryptophan. In a recent group program I offered (called “Amazing Aminos for Anxiety”) one participant calls tryptophan “my new best friend and I’m not going anywhere without it.” Her deep depression lifted in a few days, she was able to get out and exercise and she feels hope for the first time in years.
An 11 year old I worked with had remarkable results when we addressed low iron, had her remove gluten and had her take tryptophan: no more rageful episodes, no more anxiety/depression/insomnia and the tryptophan made it effortless for her to quit the gluten and colored candies she was hooked on.
I’m curious if you have you ever used tryptophan with clients/patients? and seen harmful effects?
I’m also curious if you have ever used tryptophan yourself? A few years ago I needed it and found it to be great for a mood boost, for PMS and for insomnia.
Based on my experience with 1000s of clients using tryptophan (and my personal experience) I do stand by my recommendation for this little boy but do acknowledge that not everyone responds favorably to every nutrient.
I’m very open to learning more to make me a better practitioner so I’m going to have to dig deeper on these concerns of yours and wonder if you you can direct me to some resources/studies/blogs you have written (perhaps this will lead to a follow-up blog)
1) it has to compete with other aromatic amino acids for access to the AAA transporter on the blood-brain barrier (this would be the reason for doing it alone, with no other competing amino acids, both in protein or supplements)
2) Secondly, because of its chemical structure, it’s not well absorbed by the gut (this doesn’t make sense to me and is the first I’ve heard of this)
3) By supplying tryptophan alone, you may just end up stoking the kynurenine pathway, with the risk of increasing quinolinic acid synthesis (I am aware there are some practitioners who have concerns about this. Dr William Shaw from Great Plains lab is one example. How do you feel about doing an organic acids test/OAT and seeing if quinolinic acid is elevated? Interestingly, when I was taking tryptophan I did an OAT test and did not see elevated quinolinic acid. I notice you say “may just end up stoking the kynurenine pathway” so this does seem to be on a case by case basis. I’d love to hear if you’ve seen elevated quinolinic acid on an OAT, when someone was taking tryptophan, and how the person felt)
4) If you have polymorphisms in Tryptophan hydroxylase OR have a defect in BH4, iron or copper metabolism (of which there are many), what little quantities of tryptophan that do make it to serotonergic neurones would be dwarfed by even the relatively low doses of 5HTP supplied by even one capsule per day of this product (I’d love to know more about this aspect – would you share some of the polymorphisms).
Thanks! I do appreciate you taking the time to comment so extensively. I welcome all comments – both positive and negative – and I look forward to a healthy debate and continued learning!
Trudy
Hi Trudy, I wonder if you have information that I don’t have about the side effect of 5HTP raising cortisol levels. I really question this, as I have issues sleeping, and have a cortisol that creeps slightly upward (but within normal) toward early evening (the rest of the day cortisol is below normal). I am not helped by tryptophan or melatonin or supplements designed to lower cortisol, regardless of playing around with dosages of all those things. I am only helped with 5HTP. Over the last 10 years I have weaned up and down on my dose depending on stress factors, taking between 150 and 300 mg each evening, about 4 hours after the cortisol rises on my saliva tests. That higher dose has never felt like it raised cortisol. ( I know what that feels like, as I have been working with these supplements and adrenal stress tests for a long time.) I just wanted to share my experience.
Thanks for sharing Sarah. There is no one-size fits all and if you do well with 5-HTP I don’t see it as being a problem. A number of people just do better with 5-HTP.
The bigger question for me is why have you have had the need to take 5-HTP for 10 years? What underlying issues are contributing to ongoing low levels of serotonin: gut dysbiosis? heavy metals? methylation or other genetic issues? malabsoption? ongoing stress? etc
I’m sure you’re working on addressing the rest of the day below-normal cortisol (the above factors could be at play here too)
Trudy
Hello Trudy,
I loved this article.
I have been in the same situation with my child, and I have found that the NuMedica Glutenza/Colostrum/Gluten Sensitivity PRP Balance Immune Balancing Spray all seem to work together to help these situation for my daughter. Enough to have a noticeable difference, especially with recovery and what happens “just after” exposure. I got these ideas from Dr Tom O’Bryan after listening to the Gluten Summit (online) and doing additional research. I have not tried the entire gut protocol he suggests (including some 30 day supplement type packets) but the colostrum/glutenza/PRP seem to work for us. (I even found the products on the shelf –newly added– at the local patient friendly compounding pharmacy AND at the functional medicine pediatrician that we see–also newly stocked). FYI, We do the colostrum each day and the spray too as part of “gut” repair and maintenance program. Just added more and took the “glutenza” before eating in a restaurant, with gluten exposure etc. I have been looking for a long time for something that works. And have tried many things in the past. (To sound like the disclaimer on many sites and posts, I have NO connection to the products except relief to have found them. The materials that came in the shipment I first ordered did outline a gluten support program that says ” The formulas in NuMedica’s Gluten Support Program work synergistically with a gluten-free diet to minimize the negative effects of gluten exposure in individuals with gluten free issues.” The entire packet has extra things like “support packs, D3 and Tri-Flora supplements” that we have NOT tried or used. So I have no basis to give any information on them, but the D3 and probiotics in general are part of our regular routine.
I must say that things are better when we are working on the “gut” in general. My child has probiotics, D3, Colostrum (and Omerga 3s) in place as part of the regular “gut” routine. This, together with the gluten free diet” made a HUGE difference for us. For the unwanted gluten exposure, the Numedica products have helped considerably. I am an engineer and like to find science and evidence based background for what we do –and all of this is supported by recent publications etc. (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/probiotics-change-brain-activity-emotional-response). I knew these things by observation in my child. Nice to know that others are finding that these observations are evidence based.
So not sure if this information/product would help anyone else, but it certainly has helped us.
Christine
Thanks so much for sharing all this. I know it will be very helpful to others faced with the possibility of accidental gluten exposure.
I’m glad you mentioned gut repair too. This aspect is also key so we can minimize the effects of accidental exposure, plus continue to heal the gut that is affected by accidental exposures.
Your child is fortunate to have a mom who is so diligent! And I’m like you – I also love the science!
Trudy
Hello Mrs.Trudy,
I have 2 questions please:
My nephew is sensitive who is crying from little things and before was crying when hearing loud music.
In the recent anxiety summit the expert said for the sensitive child we can put 5HTP on his toung , so how much the quantity? And for how long?
My second question is for some one who is alcoholic and showing rude behavior, as he refuses taking medicine what can we do?
Thanks Trudy
Best Regards
mona
Hi Mona
I have only used tryptophan with children and start with 100mg Lidtke Chewable (you can find details about this and the other aminos here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/). However I would start with diet first – real food, quality protein, blood sugar control, no additives/colors etc, no gluten, no caffeine and no sugar.
The amino acids are as effective for alcohol as they are for sugar cravings and other addictions. I would have this person do the Amino Acid questionnaire and see if other low serotonin symptoms are present (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/) and then also consider tryptophan. Of course, the above dietary approach would also apply too.
Hello Trudy,
months have general anxiety disorder , my age is 39 and since i was 20 i started to take medications for anxiety ,always my cholesterol is high and my CRP is high , my body shape is apple, my waist is 99 cm,and my hip 100 cm
In the last year i took effexor after 9 months i had inflammation in the liver
and high liver enzymes so i stopped taking medicine, and instead i took many supplements and amino acids ,and also ate oily foods and sweets
and now i have 3 stones ( small stones)in the Gallbladder and it’s contracted but without sign of acute cholecystitis .
The question is shall I do this operation or just not eating oily food and sugar
and no caffeine no gluten.
Thank You,
Best Regards
mona
Mona
If you are asking about doing an operation to remove your gallbladder then my answer is to try and avoid it if you can – despite what you may hear we do need our gallbladder. Talk to your doctor and ask if it is safe for you to first try a natural approach to support your gallbladder. I would recommend finding a holistic practitioner to help guide you. Here is a good article by Dr Murray http://doctormurray.com/health-conditions/gallstones/ and he does say no sugar, no caffeine and that food sensitivities can be a factor.
Sorry I forgot to tell that i took many supplements and amino acids for 4 months and oily foods and sweets.
Hello Trudy,
There is a link for medical symptoms
http://www.medicalsymptomsguide.com/ Gallbladder disease
Best Regards
mona
Hello Trudy, my granddaughter is 14, non-verbal with developmental delay. She becomes “addicted” to her iPad or other electronic/musical toys and gets very angry when she’s deprived (ex at night when she should be asleep. She’s on no meds, is otherwise heathy. Would 5htp or tryptophan be worth trying ? Thank you for any advice you can offer, I’m trying to help my daughter with her.
Maggie
It’s wonderful that you are helping your daughter with your granddaughter. Addictions to electronics are very real and can be as challenging as a drug addiction so you’re on track thinking there could be a role for one of the amino acids. The key is to figure out which one by trying to figure out what drives the addiction. I list 5 of those drivers in the sugar blog – simply replace sugar with iPad https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-individual-amino-acids-glutamine-gaba-tryptophan-or-5-htp-dpa-and-tyrosine-are-powerful-for-eliminating-sugar-cravings-often-within-5-minutes/ and use the questionnaire to try and figure which one. It may be more than one too – like it may be calming and comforting and stimulating and make her happy.
Hi Trudy,
I have been giving my son (who is gluten sensitive and has ADHD symptoms, night waking, slow growth, etc) 100mg of L-tryptophan (Lidtke chewables) the last couple of nights, and this morning he slept until 10 which is very unusual for him, and he’s complaining of stomach upset. Possible side-effect from the supplement? Does he need less than 100mg? Thanks so much for your help!
Niki
With too much sleepiness I reduce the dose. And tummy upset can happen initially.
Apologies for the delay in your comment approval and my response. We had a computer glitch where a large number of comments were hidden from view in a spam folder. It mostly affected new folks who were commenting for the first time but it’s hopefully resolved now.